1940 Pullman Service Between Los Angeles and San Francisco

[rjemery]

About 1940, what passenger Pullman service existed between Los Angeles and San Francisco that ran after dark?

What was the travel time between the two main cities?

What intermediate stops were made?

[henry6]

Check official guides and timetables of the railroads in that year.  They can be found at rail shows and from those dealing with rail memorabilia...Don't know where you are, but there has to be a railfan or railfan or historical group near you.   Check ads in the magazines or even on line.....

[Deggesty]

rjemery

About 1940, what passenger Pullman service existed between Los Angeles and San Francisco that ran after dark?

What was the travel time between the two main cities?

What intermediate stops were made?

The January, 1941, Guide shows the Lark as the overnight all-Pullman train that left both cities at 9:00 at night and arrived at 9:00 in the morning. The Coaster, which carried coaches and tourist sleepers, left both cities at 7:00 at night, and arrived at 7:50 in the morning. The Sunset Limited, which carried San Francisco-Los Angeles sleepers and San Francisco-New Orleans sleepers (no coaches here), left at 8:00 and arrived at 8:10. The all-Pullman trains made few stops; the Coaster stopped at a few more places.

The Lark had a few cars that ran between Oakland and Los Angeles, which were carried on a separate train between Oakland and San Jose.

There was no other all-rail service between San Francisco and Los Angeles.

[daveklepper]

J, you meant no other overnight all-rail service between LA and SF.

[Deggesty]

daveklepper

J, you meant no other overnight all-rail service between LA and SF.

Yes. The SFe did have overnight rail service between Bakersfield and Oakland, but there was a three hour+ bus ride between Los Angeles and Bakersfield, as well as the ferry ride across the bay. The Lark had a section than ran into Oakland, for the benefit of people who wanted to go to Oakland (it had a coach between San Jose and Oakland), did not mind using the fery between Oakland and San Francisco.

[FlyingCrow]

Don't forget SP #25-26, the OWL.

[rjemery]

Johnny,

The January, 1941, Guide shows the Lark as the overnight all-Pullman train that left both cities at 9:00 at night and arrived at 9:00 in the morning. The Coaster, which carried coaches and tourist sleepers, left both cities at 7:00 at night, and arrived at 7:50 in the morning. The Sunset Limited, which carried San Francisco-Los Angeles sleepers and San Francisco-New Orleans sleepers (no coaches here), left at 8:00 and arrived at 8:10. The all-Pullman trains made few stops; the Coaster stopped at a few more places.

The Lark had a few cars that ran between Oakland and Los Angeles, which were carried on a separate train between Oakland and San Jose.

There was no other all-rail service between San Francisco and Los Angeles.

Would any of those trains have made a stop in Palo Alto, either to board or discharge passengers?

I am interested in knowing what stops those trains would have made.

I presume the times for the Sunset Limited were 8 pm departure and 8:10 am arrival, is that not correct?

[aricat]

 The Lark did stop at Palo Alto and also Burlingame. Additional stops were at San Jose,Watsonville Junction,Salinas, San Luis Obispo, Santa Barbara, Ventura, Oxnard, and Glendale. The Owl did stop in Berkeley, Richmond, Martinez, Tracy, Fresno,Tulare, Bakersfield, and Glendale. It also would make conditional stops in Lathrop, Modesto, Merced and Madera if their were passengers to pick up or disembark.

[timz]

In the June 1940 timetable, no Lark stops at Ventura-Oxnard. Others correct, except maybe the Lark skipped Palo Alto and Burlingame if no known passengers for those stops.

[narig01]

Santa Fe also had overnite trains. The Angel ran from Oakland down thru Barstow to Los Angeles. I do not remember offhand the dates it ran so it may br outside the time frame your looking for.

Rgds IGN

[Deggesty]

Ian, I could not find the Saint (Los Angeles to Oakland) and the Angel (Oakland to Los Angeles) in my reprint of the January, 1930 Guide. They are in the June, 1916, reprint. Apparently, they died about the time of the stock market crash. So far as I know, they were the only even approaching overnight service the Santa Fe offered.

[timz]

They ended in 1917 or 1918.

[narig01]

I was not sure of the time frame just remembered the name and the fact that the train went all the way out to Barstow.
Also Johnny I'm not sure his the Angel would have been listed as it switched directions in Barstow. Out of Oakland it was eastbound to Barstow and then westbound to Los Angeles. And vice versa.
Rgds IGN

[Deggesty]

Ian, the Angel and the Saint did provide overnight service between Los Angeles and the Bay Area, even though the direction of operation changed at Barstow. The representation in the Guide shows through sleepers between San Diego and San Francisco, as well as between Los Angeles and San Francisco. Of course, a ferry ride was necessary between San Francisco and Ferry Point (about two miles from Richmond). After going to Ferry Point and discharging passengers, the Saint returned to Richmond, and then went down to Oakland; the Angel originated in Oakland, ran to Richmond, then to Ferry Point, and then back to Richmond before heading for Barstow and Los Angeles. Passengers who wanted to go through Oakland either way could ride a Key System ferry across the Bay (10 cent fare) instead of taking the free Santa Fe ferry. The Key System used the Ferry Building; the Santa Fe had a terminal apparently at China Basin, at approximately 4th Street.

[timz]

Deggesty

... the free Santa Fe ferry. The Key System used the Ferry Building; the Santa Fe had a terminal apparently at China Basin

Where'd you read that SFe passengers didn't go to the Ferry Bldg?

SFe timetables don't seem to say where their "San Francisco" is, but the station index in the Official Guide says SFe went to the Ferry Bldg.

[rcdrye]

Santa Fe's freight yard, car float bridge and interchange with the State Belt were in China Basin, an operation that lasted into the 1980s.

[efftenxrfe]

By the '60's, the Owl, after being fed by Greyhounds, from the City, flew along the Bay and up the Sacto.  and San Joaquin Rivers, about 90 miles  to Tracy where it turned right onto the West Side line, where it flew, made the repected Steffee Speed survey, thru Los Banos, Firebaugh Biola Jct to Fresno where it returned to the aforementioned track to Bakersfied, Tehachipi, Mojave, Glendale and LAUPT (then, not as now, LAUPS-tation.)

Quite right about China Basin, fed by China (otherwise commonly S__T) Creek, being the ATSF's freight car float terminal.

Passengers without connecting boats SF to Ferry Point at Richmond took rides from,  "the morning fog fills the air," in my brain, 7 th and Mission?, a dedicated store-front but classy sales office-terminal, in buses, painted so that you knew they were Santa Fe, to a terminal in Emeryville, 40th  and San Pablo Ave, Between Berkeley and Oakland at the of a branch from Richmond.

Then, pullmans to LA?, I think the only were on the SF Chief, which turned left at Mojave for points east and Chi.-land.                      

[Deggesty]

timz

Deggesty

... the free Santa Fe ferry. The Key System used the Ferry Building; the Santa Fe had a terminal apparently at China Basin

Where'd you read that SFe passengers didn't go to the Ferry Bldg?

SFe timetables don't seem to say where their "San Francisco" is, but the station index in the Official Guide says SFe went to the Ferry Bldg.

The fine print in the Santa Fe representation indicates that the ferry service was between Ferry Point and San Francisco; the SPV California and Nevada Atlas, in map CA-16, does not show an abandoned SFe ferry to the Ferry Building, but one to Fisherman's Wharf and one to the China Basin. I missed the one to Fisherman's Wharf; there was also one to Tiburon from Ferry Point (Point Richmond). Perhaps passengers were taken to Fisherman's Wharf.

I just looked at the station index in the 1917 Guide; it does show the SFe as using the same terminal as the SP.

I do not take SPV as being 100.00% accurate.