During the McGiniss era, once riding the 7pm train from Grand Central to Boston, in the 8600-series postwar coaches, somewhere in Rhode Island we stopped, the FL9 pair uncoupled, I saw them out of the right side window going to pick up some express cars on a siding, the car got colder and colder as the steam heat got lost, then they coupled the express cars to the front of the train, and we proceded to Boston arraving about 20 minutes late. The conductor explained to me that this was a regular occurance three or more times a week, to switch the "Condi-Nast" plant. I think these were magazines or newspapers or whatnot. Maybe other readers have more information.
Of course the freight cars I saw at the front of the streamliners had steam lines and communication wiring. But that still does not make them express cars. I am certain they had regular PRR box car lettering and nothing more. Today, such an operaton would probably use cars that have DOD markings, but this was WWII. My guess is that they had probably been delivered by an LIRR peddler freight, DD-1 or 2-8-0 or 4-6-0 power (and yes the LIRR did use DD-1's in peddler freight service) to Sunnyside Yard from one of the Long Island defense industry sidings. I doubt they got any special handling when returning north in regular freight-trains, just expedited. But I certainly agree this did not make these streamliners into mixed trains. I also suspect that after WWII, the steam lines and communication wiring were probably removed, with the cars keeping their modified trucks until first major shopping. Or possibly they may have been sold to Railway Express, but I don't remember seeing them. The PRR and the B&O were the only two railroads that I saw with this particular kiind of box car, a regular steel 40-footer but with a turtle-roof instead of angled roof. There were lots of these box cars on both railroads, but obviously only a few had the PRR special equipment, and as far as I know only PRR cars.
daveklepper Express cars are not freight cars. Agreed. But the cars behind the GG-1's on the front of the southbound Southerner and the East Coast Champion were not express cars. Express cars had the red diamond Railway Express label in addition to the railroad label. Express cars were also longer than 40 feet. These cars were standard PRR turtle-roof running board box cars with regular PRR box-car lettering. They did not have long-wheelbase drop-equalizer passenger trucks. They had standard short wheelbase Symmington-Gould or Andrews trucks modified with roller bearings and special snubbing shock-absorbers to enable them to run at passenger train speeds. (I got a close-up look at the trucks during the engine change in Washington.) These were clearly freight cars and not express cars, and the operation was a WWII wartime emergency measure. I did not see them on the northbound trains. They were returned north in regular freight trains. What they carried, if anything, northbound I do not know. But southbound loads were essential parts for aircraft and other military products of southern factories.
Express cars are not freight cars. Agreed. But the cars behind the GG-1's on the front of the southbound Southerner and the East Coast Champion were not express cars. Express cars had the red diamond Railway Express label in addition to the railroad label. Express cars were also longer than 40 feet. These cars were standard PRR turtle-roof running board box cars with regular PRR box-car lettering. They did not have long-wheelbase drop-equalizer passenger trucks. They had standard short wheelbase Symmington-Gould or Andrews trucks modified with roller bearings and special snubbing shock-absorbers to enable them to run at passenger train speeds. (I got a close-up look at the trucks during the engine change in Washington.) These were clearly freight cars and not express cars, and the operation was a WWII wartime emergency measure.
I did not see them on the northbound trains. They were returned north in regular freight trains. What they carried, if anything, northbound I do not know. But southbound loads were essential parts for aircraft and other military products of southern factories.
On the head end of a premier passenger train of that era, and the Southerner & East Coast Champion were, the cars had to be equipped with a steam line, "They had standard short wheelbase Symmington-Gould or Andrews trucks modified with roller bearings and special snubbing shock-absorbers to enable them to run at passenger train speeds." Therefore, the carriers operating them considered them 'passenger cars', no matter how they returned North. All express was not necessarily operated by the Railway Express Agencey in REA identified cars. The cars may have been operated by the Department of Defense (or whatever it was called at the time) with DODX (or whatever was appropriate during the WW II period) reporting marks.
In today's railroading, my carrier regularly handles passenger car movements in our normal freight service for freight revenue. Not being constructed for freight service, there are special restrictions on how and where the cars may be handled. Cars run in passenger service at unrestrictred passenger train speed are, by defination, passenger cars.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
The Oakland Antioch and Eastern (Sacramento Northern) ran mixed trains on the Danville branch using a converted open platform ex-Central Pacific coach and conventional freight cars.
I also agree that none of these trains should really be called mixed trains, which are defined as such in the timetables and usually imply a lower standard of comfort and timekeeping.
The caption on this photo from Sacramento Northern Railroad (Images of Rail) by Paul C. Trimble , published by Arcadia refers to a "daily mixed train" The SN was 100% electric in 1920.
walford_zpsc4473ce2 by Donald Schmitt, on Flickr
There is an undated photo on another page of the same car at Mulberry Shops (Chico) coupled to a caboose. .
The SN was divided into two sections. "South End" former Oakland, Antioch & Eastern, "North End" former Northern Electric.
The branch to Mt Diablo was on the "south end" Chico is at the end of the "north end" main line.
I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.
I don't have a leg to stand on.
PRR operated Mail & Express trains - these trains to the unknowing, would look like a mixed trains has the trains would consist of up to 30 or so express cars, mail storage cars and maybe a RPO or two, all followed by a rider coach for the crew. These trains were scheduled as passenger trains and ran at passenger train speeds.
The true 'Mixed Train' carried freight for industries along the route and the mixed train would switch the industries as each appeared along the route. Passengers were permitted, not encouraged.
Denver and Intermountain operated mixed trains on both its narrow guage and standard guage lines around Denver. I don't know for sure whether passengers were carried but the trains were trailed by ex- C&S combines (reguaged to 42" for the narrow-guage lines).
daveklepper Then of course there was the wartime operation of the Southerner, the Crescent, the East Coast Champion, and the Silver Metorior, that often left Penn Station New York with a PRR roller-bearing round-roof boxcar, 40-ft, 40-ton, immediately behind the GG1, that stayed at the front of the train through the engine change in Washington and carried important parts for some defense manufacturer at a southern factory. I saw this many times as a youngster.
Then of course there was the wartime operation of the Southerner, the Crescent, the East Coast Champion, and the Silver Metorior, that often left Penn Station New York with a PRR roller-bearing round-roof boxcar, 40-ft, 40-ton, immediately behind the GG1, that stayed at the front of the train through the engine change in Washington and carried important parts for some defense manufacturer at a southern factory. I saw this many times as a youngster.
Express cars were common on passenger trains on many railroads. The cars were fully equipped for passenger train service with steam lines, communication lines and trucks designed for passenger train speeds. These cars were normally not used in freight service. Their used in passenger trains does not make the train a mixed.
Indiana Railroad 375-377 were motored, with controls, and often ran as single car movements with a two-man RR crew plus the mail clerk if in RPO service. They could mu witih the one-manned middle-weight cars and were powerful enough to pull a trailer or two.1100 (377) kept its motors on the CSS&SB, rewired for the different voltage.
rcdrye South Shore had converted Indiana RR box trailers in newspaper service on passenger trains into the 1960s.
South Shore had converted Indiana RR box trailers in newspaper service on passenger trains into the 1960s.
South Shore's express trailers (504 and 505) and line car 1100 were converted from Indiana RR RPO trailers 375-377.
One of the curiosities of the BA&P operation was that in the early days of passenger trains the coaches would have rooftop bus bar electric lines from the motor for heat, but later in mixed operation at the end of a long string of ore cars, the lone coach had a prominent smoke jack.
Butte Anaconda and Pacific would send its motors from Butte (MT) Union Station with one or two coaches and then pick up freight cars in the nearby yard for the trip to the Anaconda smelter.
As Dave points out, PRR (and NYC) had roller-bearing, steam line equipped boxcars that were used in passenger trains. NYC handled these and mail cars with a rider coach on the West Side Freight line into the 1930s at least behind electrics from Harmon.
Montreal and Southern Counties operated box motors with passenger cars in milk and express service east of Montreal to the end of operations in 1956.
The Indiana Railroad and some of its predicessors often would attach a freightcar or two behind a passenger motor car or two in multiple. Other interurbans also did this, including Lehigh Valley Transit, but in their case, the frieght cars were converted old passenger cars, with windows blanked off and boxcar side doors installed. I would suspect that Butt Anaconda and Pacific may have run mixed trains behind electric locomotives. Piedmont and Northern and Central California Taction may be others.
My guess would be no,though I'm not certain that some interurbans didn't have passenger units that couldn't pull a freight car or two.I was born in '52,too late for steam,mixed trains,or the interurbans.I've ridden a mixed train once(in the cap of a GP-10!),but this was the Santa Fe Southern in New Mexico,more of a tourist line.I was lucky enough to ride on a day when they did pick up some freight cars
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