On September 25th, 1915,, Ford visited the Estey factory to inspect the new organ under construcion for his Dearborn residence. He planned to "take the evening train to New York." What train would that have been (probably ovenight)? What space would he have occupied?
But he did not. He lingered at the plant until midnight. The next day, Willliam E. Haskill, director of the pipe organ department and inventor of numerous featurs used on many modern organs, his son, wifw, and a neighborhhood lady, drove with Ford to Troy in Haskill's Thomas Flyer auto, which Ford admired, via Greenfield, the Mowhawk Trail, and North Adams, and Ford took the train from Trou to Detroit or Dearborn. Again, what train and what space?
Information is from the Brattleboro Pheonix 1 October 1915, as quoted in The Bicentennial of the Organ in Vemon, Organ Historical Society, Richmond VA., p. 184.
From Brattleboro to New York he would most likely have had a Drawing room in a 12-1 sleeper B&M Springfield NYNH&H. There were a bunch of evening trains for options. If he left earlier in the day he could have had a Parlor seat. CV still offered its Boat Train service via New London at the time as well.
In 1915 it was still possible to take a B&M sleeper west to a connection at Rotterdam Jct with the West Shore for a through ride to Detroit via the Wabash. The car did not operate via Troy. On the other hand NYC had nearly hourly service on both sides of the Hudson from Troy to Albany, allowing for a whole lot of options via NYC and NYC/MC. He also had the option of D&H/NJ to Montreal and CP to Detroit. On sleeping cars the main option would still be the Drawing Room.
A bunch of evening trains? All overnight with sleepers? Which was the full service overnight with sleeper and diner? Several years later it would have been the Washingtonian from Montreal. How could the B&M connect with the West Shore without going through Troy? As far as I know the B&M never had a through train on the Hoosack Tunnel route that did not go to or through Troy. In 1915 would not it possibly have been the Miniute Man that operated as a B&M-NYC through train to Chicago via Cleveland but which dropped a sleeper at Buffalo for the Detroiter or Wovlerine? Someone with access to the schedules should check.
I don't have a 1915 OG but one a few years earlier shows the following possibilities -
B&M No. 314 was a White River Jct - Springfield train that carried a through sleeper which ran on the New Haven from Springfield to New York. It left Brattleboro at 8:34 pm and arrived in NY at 6:25 the next morning.
There were NYC trains ever half hour from Troy to Albany. At Albany he would probably have changed to the Wolverine leaving at 7:57 pm and arriving in Detroit at 9:10 the following morning. The Wolverine carried NY - Detroit sleepers which ran over the NYC and Michigan Central.
Mark
Using the guide you have:
Did 314 have a diner? I gather it was not named. Was there no B&M-NYC through train via Troy? Or at least through sleepers, one of which may have run to or through Detroit. Did the Wolverine run through to Chicago (I would guess so given its name, meaning it should serve Ann Arbor) and have a stop right at Dearborn?
The B&M through sleeper via Troy which replaced the Rotterdam Jct. car around 1915, ran in the Lake Shore Limited via Cleveland. An easy connection was probably still possible via Toledo to Detroit.
The train that eventually became the Washingtonian/Montrealer would have gone southbound through Brattleboro at about 1:15 AM. In 1915 it would only have connected for Grand Central as Hell Gate didn't open until 1917. An earlier evening departure would make more sense.
daveklepper Using the guide you have: Did 314 have a diner? I gather it was not named. Was there no B&M-NYC through train via Troy? Or at least through sleepers, one of which may have run to or through Detroit. Did the Wolverine run through to Chicago (I would guess so given its name, meaning it should serve Ann Arbor) and have a stop right at Dearborn?
Dave, the info I have comes from a 1910 OG and obviously schedules could easily have been different in 1915. B&M #314 originated at White River Jct did not carry a diner since it departed well after dinner time.
I could not find any through trains that ran between Troy and Detroit. The Wolverine ran on the NYC between Albany and Buffalo and on the Michigan Central via St Thomas, Ont from Buffalo to Detroit. The Wolverine did continue on to Chicago and after leaving Detroit made station stops at Ypsilanti, Ann Arbor and Jackson in that order.
If the Minuteman was running through from Boston to Chicago via Cleveland, leaving from North Station and using the B&M to Troy,, it may have dropped a sleeper at Buffalo to be picked up by the Wolverine.
Can you check on this? Its through operation may have been shown in the B&M timetable but not in the NYC for obvious reasons.
Ford may have used the Ypselanti station instead of Detroit. Or if there was a station at Deaborn, the Wolverine could have made a special stop for him.
daveklepper If the Minuteman was running through from Boston to Chicago via Cleveland, leaving from North Station and using the B&M to Troy,, it may have dropped a sleeper at Buffalo to be picked up by the Wolverine. Can you check on this? Its through operation may have been shown in the B&M timetable but not in the NYC for obvious reasons. Ford may have used the Ypselanti station instead of Detroit. Or if there was a station at Deaborn, the Wolverine could have made a special stop for him.
The Minuteman name does not appear in any of the B&M schedules and for that matter no names are shown for any of the B&M's many trains, just train numbers. But remember I'm looking at a 1910 not a 1915 OG. Dearborn is not shown as a station stop on the Michigan Central at that time but I have OG's in the 1930's that show two trains stopping at Dearborn, a local and an un-named semi-local. It is quite possible that the Wolverine could have made an unscheduled stop at Dearborn for Ford since I'm sure the Ford Motor Co. was one of the Michigan Central's biggest customers.
In the 1910 timetable, do any of the B&M trains to Troy show through equipment, sleepers or anything else, running west of Troy on the NYC?
daveklepper In the 1910 timetable, do any of the B&M trains to Troy show through equipment, sleepers or anything else, running west of Troy on the NYC?
Dave, the schedules are a little hard to decipher but it appears only one B&M train that ran to/through Troy carried through cars to any point west of Albany. This was B&M No. 5 which carried a through Boston - Chicago "Tourist Car" on Wednesdays only. The car ran on the D&H from Albany to Binghamton and from there on the Erie to Chicago. I'm not familiar with the term, tourist car, but guess it was what we know as a tourist sleeper.
Two other B&M trains carried through Boston - Chicago cars but did not operate through Troy and ran instead through Mechanicsville to Rotterdam Jct. These were B&M No. 1 which carried through sleepers that ran on the West Shore (NYC) from Rotterdam Jct. to Buffalo and from there on the Wabash through Detroit and on to Chicago. On Tue, Thur and Sat, No. 1 carried a "Tourist Car" which ran to Chicago on the NKP from Buffalo via Cleveland.
The other train was B&M No.21 that carried a through Boston - Chicago sleeper which ran via Buffalo on the W. Shore and Wabash.
What is the next year you have for a B&M timetable. By 1915 the West Shore was part of the NYC System, and the through cars may have run differently. Can you check what that says? Thanks.
I think Ford would have wanted to board a through car in Troy, because otherwise Hakill would have driven the short extra drive to Albany, rather than makiing him change trains. Particiularly since the NYC Troy - Albany locals probably lacked a parlor car.
daveklepper What is the next year you have for a B&M timetable. By 1915 the West Shore was part of the NYC System, and the through cars may have run differently. Can you check what that says? Thanks. I think Ford would have wanted to board a through car in Troy, because otherwise Hakill would have driven the short extra drive to Albany, rather than makiing him change trains. Particiularly since the NYC Troy - Albany locals probably lacked a parlor car.
Dave, someone else will have to check this. My next OG is a 1937 issue which I doubt has any relevance to the schedules that were in effect in 1915.
maybe maybe not. What does the 1937 schedule show? I assume by then all B&M western trains did run to or through Troy. I don't think the NYC wasted much time in rerouting formerly West Shore service to its own lines, especially west of Buffalo.
daveklepper maybe maybe not. What does the 1937 schedule show? I assume by then all B&M western trains did run to or through Troy. I don't think the NYC wasted much time in rerouting formerly West Shore service to its own lines, especially west of Buffalo.
Dave, a check of the March 1937 OG shows you are right. At that time B&M Fitchburg Div. trains from Boston terminated in either Troy or Albany. No. 59, the Minute Man, carried a through Boston - Chicago 12SecDR sleeper which ran on the NYC via Cleveland and did not serve Detroit. No other B&M trains carried through cars for any point beyond Albany.
I have to conclude, then, that Ford did have to change trains in Albany. Possibly Ford may have even had a business appointment there. Possibly, Ford did not wish Haskill to have to arrive back in Brattleboro too late at night. Incidentally, Ford did travel by himself, with no secretary or bodyguard etc. He was a millionaire by that time.
I oncd had the experience of riding the 42nd St. Shuttle and the No, 1 train with the then millionaire Avery Fisher going to the architect Philip Johnson's office from Lincoln Center.
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