Lawrence, Kansas.

[NP Eddie]

This post is about Lawrence, Kansas. As a boy, I hung around the Great Northern passenger station in Minneapolis and collect the many passenger timetables the information clerk had in stock.

One of two (maybe more) dealt with Lawrence, Kansas. They stated that "stopovers were not permitted in Lawrence, Kansas". They may have bee other restrictions regarding that station.

Can anyone please give me more information about the above.

After the 1970 BN merger, I bid a job on the former GN side and met this former information clerk!

Ed Burns

NP-BN-BNSF clerk from Minneapolis and an ATCS host in Anoka, MN.

[KCSfan]

Eddie, I presume you are talking about Santa Fe trains. Lawrence was a scheduled stop for the Kansas Cityan/Chicagoan, the SF Chief and the Grand Canyon but I can't find anything in the OG's that says stopovers were not permitted in Lawrence.

I could understand prohibiting stopovers on the Kansas Cityan/Chicagoan since this would mean tying up a seat for the short haul between KC and Lawrence which then wouldn't be available for passengers travelling longer distances. To a lesser extent the same might also apply to the SF Chief but I can see no reason at all for not allowing passengers on the Grand Canyon to make a stopover.  

Mark

[rcdrye]

If you're talking about Rock Island trains it may be due to restrictions in traffic allowed due to being on UP trackage rights. 1941 TTs allowed pick up and discharge of "revenue passengers for(/from) regular stop points in Kansas only".

[KCSfan]

rcdrye

If you're talking about Rock Island trains it may be due to restrictions in traffic allowed due to being on UP trackage rights. 1941 TTs allowed pick up and discharge of "revenue passengers for(/from) regular stop points in Kansas only".

Rob, I've looked at OG's for various years between 1937-54 and nowhere do I find Lawrence in any of the RI schedules. The only RR's shown serving Lawrence are the SF, UP and the freight only Kansas City Kaw Valley.

Mark

[rcdrye]

Here's one from the June 1941 OG, including the footnotes for Lawrence.

http://www.streamlinerschedules.com/concourse/track8/rockymtrocket194106.html

 

[KCSfan]

rcdrye

Here's one from the June 1941 OG, including the footnotes for Lawrence.

http://www.streamlinerschedules.com/concourse/track8/rockymtrocket194106.html

Rob, It's puzzling but the index of cities and towns in none of the OG's I mentioned show the RI serving Lawrence, just the SF, UP and KCKR. For this reason I never looked for Lawrence in the RI schedules until you posted the above.

I now see that a number of RI trains ran through Lawrence including the Golden State Ltd, Californian, Texas Rocket and Twin Star Rocket plus several other un-named ones. Lawrence appears to have been a flag stop for some of these and a scheduled stop for one local. Thanks for getting me on the right track.

Mark

[rcdrye]

A lot of carriers had weird honoring arrangements due to trackage rights, joint operation and other such.  I knew about RI rights between Kansas City and Topeka from an old article about the Golden State route.

The 1957 guide does not show RI in Lawrence.  The footnotes in the RI pages there (with different odd symbols depending on the page) show 225 and 226 (KC-Belleville Kan.) stopping in Lawrence "for revenue passengers on Clay City line" with Clay City being about halfway from KC to Belleville, where 225/226 met 25/26 going from Omaha to Goodland Kan.