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Penn Central Passenger Equipment

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  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Altadena, CA
  • 340 posts
Posted by 081552 on Sunday, September 2, 2012 3:03 PM

Thanks for the photos and story behind them. Nice Labor Day addition.

  • Member since
    April 2007
  • From: Columbus OH
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Posted by dabug on Sunday, September 2, 2012 2:49 PM

"The train, railroad, and station (?) are gone."

Yes, yes, and yes, 081552.  (The station was demolished in the spring of 1977 for a convention center.  Amtrak had moved to a cracker box "Amshack" just east of the old station, and used it until the National Limited was discontinued 10/01/79.  Columbus hasn't had scheduled rail passenger service since, and is, I believe, the second largest city in the United States without rail passenger service, Phoenix being the largest.)

"Any photos of the Penn Texas that night?"

As a matter of fact, yes again.  Here are two shots of the train as it brakes past Scioto Tower, 0.9 mile west of Union Station, and bangs across the diamonds of two other main lines on the evening of 6/20/70: the first line grooved is the C&O's main line from Ashland KY to Detroit (and was still the route of the Sportsman, or what was left of it by this time); the second line the train encounters is the NYC (Toledo & Ohio Central) line between Charleston WV, Columbus, and Toledo OH.  In the first shot, note the Southern baggage car entering the frame of the pic on the right; always found foreign-road equipment showing up on passenger trains anywhere of interest.  (By the way, Scioto Tower supposedly was the last open tower in Columbus, and the presence of three double-track main lines crossing each other here afforded a layout with 12 diamonds.  The ex-NYC line has long since been single-tracked through here, but all three lines are still active.)     

The second view shows the diner (PRR 4520) and the sleeper bringing up the rear passing the tower.  Note that the sleeper is a PRR 4-4-2 car (the Richard Beatty Mellon); the normal assignment was a 10-6 car.

You might also find of some interest pics of the very last Penn Central #4-78, the combined Penn Texas-Cincinnati Limited, at Columbus on 4/30/71, the evening before Amtrak began.

The first pic shows the ex-PRR sleeper-bar-lounge Aspen Falls.  Penn Central "green" doesn't look too bad on this car, I think.  This is the corridor side of the car.   

Behind the Aspen Falls came No. 4's diner, Penn Central 4553, which is an ex-NYC car.  

Next came No. 4's sleeper, the PRR 10-6 car Chester having the "honor" of holding down the very last eastbound sleeper line on this route.  (This car was built for interline service with Seaboard trains.)  

Lastly, here's a left rear view of seven of the eight cars constituting the very last PC #4-78 at Columbus.  The 10-6 sleeper Toronto Islands (the ex-PRR Scioto Rapids) is off #78 from Cincinnati; only the coach on that same connecting train is out of view to the right.  This means No. 4 came into town for the last time that evening with only 6 cars - 2 baggage cars, coach, sleeper-lounge, diner, and sleeper as you can see here.  That's a far cry from a generation earlier when the train might carry that many MP interline Texas-East Coast Pullmans alone!  How have the mighty fallen!  

Dave

Golly gee whiz, how did the railroads ever do it in the age before computers or government "help"?  (Then: they did it.  Today: forget it!)

  • Member since
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  • From: Altadena, CA
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Posted by 081552 on Saturday, September 1, 2012 8:22 PM

Wow, thanks for the photo and detailed information. The train, railroad, and station (?) are gone. Any photos of the Penn Texas that night?

  • Member since
    April 2007
  • From: Columbus OH
  • 62 posts
Posted by dabug on Saturday, September 1, 2012 9:55 AM

You’re right, 081552, I never had much affection for the Penn Central Railroad either.  Therefore never made a point of taking pics of their freight cars or locomotives.  Passenger cars, however, were another matter.  And since you inquired about their acquisition of passenger cars from both the Rio Grande and “Uncle Pete”, I can provide you with a pic of one of the D&RGW coaches after Penn Central had “done its thing” with it.

This pic shows Penn Central coach 3165, the former D&RGW 1244.  It is cut into the consist of PC #78, the decrepit remains of the once proud Cincinnati Limited, at Columbus OH Union Station on the evening of 6/19/70.  By this late pre-Amtrak time frame, the standard consist of this poor train was a 10-6 sleeper and a coach, in that order.  (Once in a while a baggage car would come trundling along on the rear as well.)  In Columbus the train was coupled to the rear of PC #4, the Penn Texas, for New York.  In this pic #78 is awaiting the arrival of #4.  The coach looks fairly attractive to me with its green paint above the stainless steel fluting below the windows.  Looking from the left rear.  (This is one of 1600+ slides I submitted to George Elwood's splendid "Fallen Flags" website which he was gracious enough to post.)   

I also have a slide of Penn Central coach 3004, which is ex-UP 5436, in early Amtrak service.  But it's a little too grubby for posting due to early morning light.  However, if you search on line for "Penn Central coach 3004" you should find at least one pic of it; I found a b&w shot of it in Chicago.                   

Hope this helps your search.

Dave

Golly gee whiz, how did the railroads ever do it in the age before computers or government "help"?  (Then: they did it.  Today: forget it!)

  • Member since
    May 2012
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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, August 20, 2012 6:51 AM

The ex-UP coaches that GN bought in the late 1960s still had the interlocked UP in the linoleum floors when running in Big-Sky paint under Amtrak in 1974.

  • Member since
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  • From: Central New York
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Posted by MJChittick on Sunday, August 19, 2012 7:53 PM

Since you are interested in the Ringling Brothers railcar fleet, it seems Ringling Brothers has (had) about 104 former passenger cars.  Following is the link to the Utahrails.net website for these cars:

http://www.utahrails.net/pass/ringling-ex-up.php

 

Mike

  • Member since
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  • From: Altadena, CA
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Posted by 081552 on Sunday, August 19, 2012 7:16 PM

Thanks for the very detailed response! I usually see the Ringling Bros train in Commerce, CA every year so I'll be on the look out for these old UP coaches.....if they're still operating.

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  • From: Central New York
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Posted by MJChittick on Sunday, August 19, 2012 7:10 PM

The following information was obtained from the "UtahRails.net" web site:

There were six 44-seat coaches built in 1950 by Pullman-Standard that were sold to Penn Central inn 1969.  See the attached details:

You will be interested in the cars with Notes number 24, 27, 30, 31, 37 and 46.

Chair (44 seats) — 50 cars
Pullman-Standard, 1950
Lightweight

Car
Number
Date
Built
Date
Retired
Ringling Bros.
Number
Notes
UP 5400 Jun 1950 Aug 1951   1
UP 5401 Jul 1950 Dec 1971 RBBX 42001 2
UP 5402 Jun 1950 Dec 1971 RBBX 42002 3
UP 5403 Jul 1950 Dec 1971   4
UP 5404 Jul 1950 Dec 1971   5
UP 5405 Jul 1950 Oct 1968 RBBX 42003 6
UP 5406 Jul 1950 Oct 1971 RBBX 42004 7
UP 5407 Jul 1950 Oct 1971 RBBX 42005 8
UP 5408 Jul 1950 Dec 1971   9
UP 5409 Jul 1950 Oct 1971   10
UP 5410 Jul 1950 Oct 1971 RBBX 42006 11
UP 5411 Jul 1950 Oct 1971   12
UP 5412 Aug 1950 Oct 1968   13
UP 5413 Jul 1950 Dec 1971   14
UP 5414 Aug 1950 Dec 1971 RBBX 42007 15
UP 5415 Aug 1950 Dec 1971   16
UP 5416 Aug 1950 Dec 1971   17
UP 5417 Aug 1950 Dec 1971 RBBX 42008 18
UP 5418 Aug 1950 Oct 1968 RBBX 42009 19
UP 5419 Aug 1950 Oct 1968 RBBX 42010 20
UP 5420 Aug 1950 Dec 1971   21
UP 5421 Aug 1950 Oct 1968 RBBX 42011 22
UP 5422 Aug 1950 Oct 1971 RBBX 42012 23
UP 5423 Aug 1950 Dec 1969   24
UP 5424 Aug 1950 Dec 1971   25
UP 5425 Aug 1950 Dec 1971 RBBX 42013 26
UP 5426 Aug 1950 Dec 1969   27
UP 5427 Aug 1950 Oct 1971   28
UP 5428 Aug 1950 Dec 1971   29
UP 5429 Aug 1950 Dec 1969   30
UP 5430 Aug 1950 Dec 1969   31
UP 5431 Aug 1950 Oct 1968 RBBX 42014 32
UP 5432 Aug 1950 Dec 1971 RBBX 42015 33
UP 5433 Sep 1950 Dec 1971 RBBX 42016 34
UP 5434 Sep 1950 Oct 1968 RBBX 42017 35
UP 5435 Sep 1950 Oct 1968 RBBX 42018 36
UP 5436 Sep 1950 Dec 1969   37
UP 5437 Sep 1950 Dec 1971   38
UP 5438 Sep 1950 Oct 1968 RBBX 42019 39
UP 5439 Sep 1950 Oct 1968 RBBX 42020 40
UP 5440 Sep 1950 Oct 1968 RBBX 42021 41
UP 5441 Sep 1950 Dec 1971   42
UP 5442 Sep 1950 Oct 1968   43
UP 5443 Sep 1950 Dec 1971 RBBX 42023 44
UP 5444 Sep 1950 Dec 1971 RBBX 42022 45
UP 5445 Sep 1950 Dec 1969   46
UP 5446 Sep 1950 Nov 1957   47
UP 5447 Sep 1950 Jun 1956   48
UP 5448 Oct 1950 Jan 1952   49
UP 5449 Oct 1950 Nov 1951   50

Description:

Length, Over Buffers:
Length, Over Coupler Pulling Faces: 85'-0"
Length, Over End Sills:
Length, Inside:
Truck Centers: 59'-6"
Truck Style: 4 wheel, with disc brakes (9'-0" wheelbase)

General Notes:

a. Lot No: 6844
b. Floor Plan: 237-CB-25397
c. Book: Davies Volume 1, page 87
d. UP diagram sheet P-3-42 (9-1-49), Rev. B (12/20/1957) (45 cars remaining), Rev. C (7/26/1966) (45 cars remaining)
e. Eleven cars above shown as sold to Grand Trunk Western (GTW) were part of a total of 18 cars sold to GTW in 1969 to update GTW's commute service between Detroit and Pontiac, Michigan; GTW commute operations were taken over by the public transit company Southeastern Michigan Transportation Authority (SEMTA) in 1977; SEMTA discontinued its commute trains in 1983, and was reorganized in 1989 as Suburban Mobility Authority for Regional Transportation.(SMART); after the 1983 shutdown of commute rail operations, the former SEMTA passenger cars were sold to Ringling Bros. circus.

Notes:

24.

UP 5423; to Penn Central 3000; to Amtrak 4400, off roster in 1988

 

27. UP 5426; to Penn Central 3001; to Amtrak 4401, off roster in 1988

30. UP 5429; to Penn Central 3002; to Amtrak 4402, off roster in 1988
31. UP 5430; to Penn Central 3003; to Amtrak 4403, off roster in 1988; to PV "Amber Trail"

37. UP 5436; to Penn Central 3004; to Amtrak 4404, off roster in 1988
46. UP 5445; to Penn Central 3005; to Amtrak 4405, off roster in 1988

Mike

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Altadena, CA
  • 340 posts
Penn Central Passenger Equipment
Posted by 081552 on Saturday, August 18, 2012 4:50 PM

Sorry, I know the Penn Central is a four letter word to some!

I read that the PC purchased a handful of coaches from the U.P. and lounge cars from the Rio Grande in 1968-69.

Can anyone supply some additional information on this?

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