Did any of the Daylight trains or the Lark physically stop at a station in San Franscisco proper or did they stop somewhere south of that and go through to Oakland?
Thank you very much
Paul
Normally a NYC HO modeler
The Daylight trains and the Lark were LA-San Francisco trains. The Lark did have a few cars for Oakland, which were switched at San Jose.
Johnny
From 1915 until 1975 the SP station was on the south corner of 3rd and Townsend
http://maps.google.com/?ll=37.778398,-122.392668&spn=0.00234,0.003449&t=h&z=18
and before that it was nearby, so yes, all Larks and Daylights terminated there.
Deggesty The Daylight trains and the Lark were LA-San Francisco trains. The Lark did have a few cars for Oakland, which were switched at San Jose.
Both the Oakland Lark and the Oakland Daylight (which were the Oakland sections of their respective San Francisco - Los Angeles trains, which switched out at San Jose, as Deggesty stated), actually originated & terminated at SP's Oakland Mole, making connections to San Francisco's Ferry Building -- so you could actually connect to SF two ways!
But, except for the 2 Oakland sections I just mention, nearly all of SP's trains along "the Coast Route" went to San Francisco. At one time or another, these included the Morning Daylight, Noon Daylight, Lark, Coaster, the original Starlight (an all-coach overnight train, in Daylight colors, to match the all-Pullman Lark), and even the Sunset (originally, SP's flagship train #1 went from New Orleans to Los Angeles to San Francisco).
Glad to have ridden the Coast Dqaylight into 3rd & Townsend.
At least into the 1950s SP also cut a coach or two (usually one articulated pair) into or out of the Daylight at San Jose and carried it to San Francisco in one of the "Commute" trains so Peninsula passengers didn't have to change trains.
to reach their local stations, you might add.
To drop people off at local station, should be added.
IN 1969, I arrived in SF on the Daylight from LA. I used the California Zephyr back to Chicago. I did not know that the connecting bus left from the Eastbay Terminal and went to 3rd and Townsend. The SP infomation booth redirected me, and fortunately, I had enough time to walk over to the Eastbay Terminal to get the bus to Western Pacific trackside in Oakland. On-street loading like an interurban line if I remember correctly. That was the only time I was able to ride the CZ from the SF area, after that is was only to SP to the east and then Amtrak.
Dave, are you sure that the connecting WP bus to the California Zephyr was from the Transbay Terminal (the true name of what was colloquially referred to as the "Eastbay Terminal", at 1st & Mission Streets)? I thought I had read that WP's busses used the Santa Fe's dedicated bus terminal at 44 Fourth St (between Market & Mission Sts.). Or is that what you meant by "Eastbay Terminal"?
Or, perhaps the Santa Fe bus terminal was gone by then? I thought it lasted to Amtrak days, but could be wrong ...
It should be noted that your confusion was probably not that uncommon. SP's connecting busses to its Oakland departures (once the ferries from the Ferry Building were discontinued) did depart from the 3rd & Townsend depot. And most of the local busses to the East Bay did leave from the Transbay Terminal (as did Amtrak's connecting busses later).
This was the late Spring, May or June 1968 (not 1969), with the CZ less than a year to go. The AT&SF bus terminal had been closed by then, as far as I know, and I am pretty sure I left from the Eastbay Terminal. A year later, with the SP overnight to Ogden, and a van (actually a taxi) to connect with D&RGW-CB&Q "California Service," I got the SP bus at 3rd and Townsend. The year after that I returned directly from LA on the very last eastbound City of LA.
rcdrye At least into the 1950s SP also cut a coach or two (usually one articulated pair) into or out of the Daylight at San Jose and carried it to San Francisco in one of the "Commute" trains
At least into the 1950s SP also cut a coach or two (usually one articulated pair) into or out of the Daylight at San Jose and carried it to San Francisco in one of the "Commute" trains
timz rcdrye: At least into the 1950s SP also cut a coach or two (usually one articulated pair) into or out of the Daylight at San Jose and carried it to San Francisco in one of the "Commute" trains Looks like that started 1955-- ended maybe 1960. (Even the thru cars to Oakland only started in 1954.)
rcdrye: At least into the 1950s SP also cut a coach or two (usually one articulated pair) into or out of the Daylight at San Jose and carried it to San Francisco in one of the "Commute" trains
Looks like that started 1955-- ended maybe 1960. (Even the thru cars to Oakland only started in 1954.)
To add to this discussion, there was a through Coast Line Los Angeles-Oakland train in the late 1920's called the Padre. The Padre's schedule was similar to that of the Lark (overnight, few scheduled stops).
The Oakland Lark was around in the 1940s - early enough for both of the original observation cars to get destroyed in rear end collisions. My guess is that most of the Oakland Lark folks were headed to points north of the Bay area like Sacramento. The Lark and one of the CAL-P trains to Sacramento would still get you there ahead of the "West Coast".
The San Joaquin Daylight was the only Daylight train not to go directly into San Francisco. It ended at the Oakland Mole and one caught a ferry into the San Francisco Ferry Building.
From what I remember being told about Santa Fe passenger service at one point did go from Richmond down the Oakland branch to the Key System pier. It was cut back to Oakland(actually the station was in Emeryville at 40th & San Pablo) then Richmond.
The bus from Richmond did stop in both Berkeley and Oakland before going to San Francisco. Santa Fe did have a "Station" in San Francisco
About the California Zephyr. From the site http://calzephyr.railfan.net/cztt.html are the below schedules
Originally went to Oakland Pier with service to the San Francisco Ferry Building, then bus to the Santa Fe station at 44 4th St(between Market & Mission Streets.
Service from Oakland Pier http://calzephyr.railfan.net/tt53wp-3.jpg
1961 sked http://calzephyr.railfan.net/tt61wp-2.jpg
1967 & 1969 Santa Fe station 44 4th St http://calzephyr.railfan.net/tt67wp-4.jpg
Some years ago this was the site of a Walgreens Drug store and they put a display about the "Railroad Station" at the location. Alas it has changed hands.
Thx IGN
Thank you IGN for doing the research!
Two minor points:
(1) The San Joaquin Daylight wasn't the only "Daylight" not to go to San Francisco -- the Shasta Daylight also terminated at the Oakland Mole.
(2) I thought I had heard that both Santa Fe and, for a while, WP trains, used the SP Oakland Mole, not the Key System pier. (But I don't have access to my sources right now.)
rcdryeThe Lark and one of the CAL-P trains to Sacramento would still get you there ahead of the "West Coast".
DragomanI thought I had heard that both Santa Fe and, for a while, WP trains, used the SP Oakland Mole, not the Key System pier.
The SFe map probably doesn't show Oakland Pier. Ferry Point was the SFe's own ferry terminal-- maybe here
http://maps.google.com/?ll=37.91016,-122.389348&spn=0.009345,0.013797&t=h&z=16
Never? used by SFe passenger trains after 1933.
The Key pier was built on pilings and much too light for steam locomotives. The OA&E (later SN) had planned to run locomotive-hauled passenger trains but their 1B-B1 Baldwin-Westinghouse passenger engines were too heavy at about 65 tons, and ended up in freight service (one rebuilt to B-B). SP's Oakland Mole was on fill and could handle anything up to a cab-forward.
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