New York Central rider cars on mail trains

[Tom Lauridson]

I'm mystified by the presence of rider cars on NYC mail trains.  I don't see evidence of dedicated rider cars on other railroads (this could well be ignorance) but it seems odd that the NYC towed a car dedicated to this purpose.  Did these cars have some other purpose in addition to carrying train crew?  Did a union agreement result in the presence of rider cars on only on the NYC?  

Also, how were the interiors of these cars arranged and appointed? 

 

 

[Stourbridge Lion]

Tom - Welcome to trains.com!

[FlyingCrow]

No, at least the Santa Fe had them as well on #3-4; #7-8.    Actually, if you insisted long and hard enough you could ride these cars as well, but mostly they were accommodations for pass riders and company personnel needing transportation to other parts of the system.    Typically these trains were not listed in public timetables, but would show up in The Official Guide, or expanded Agent's editions of timetables.

Most were standard coaches with straightback (or flop over) seats or sometimes combines.  On rare occasions, sleeping cars (mostly open section heavyweights) would be provided.

 

 

[NP Eddie]

Tom:

I am a retired NP-BN-BNSF Clerk from Minneapolis, MN.

I never saw a rider car on the rear of an NP or CBQ passenger trains, however, the Great Northern had a series of pre-WWII baggage cars with two seats next to the vestibule area of these cars. They were always on the rear of passenger trains that had mail or express cars to the rear of the passenger carrying cars. Thus the flagman (in passenger uniform) would always be ready to flag if necessary. The various books of John F. Strauss, Jr. will give you more information on the GN operation of these cars. The GN operating rules specified that an extra set of train orders be given to the flagman on all passenger carrying trains. The GN Historical Society should be able to provide you with a picture of a rider car.

The late Ed DeRoun's book on Chicago's Union Station shows a picture of a PRR cabin car (caboose) on the rear of a mail train. The caption stated that this was to comply with union rules.

Hope this helps you a bit.

 

Ed Burns

 

 

[henry6]

Depending on the railroad, depending on the era, depending on the origin or destination of the train.  Since mail was handled on first class trains, timetable authority and schedule for most passenger trains, it would be natrual that there would be a rider car for the five man crew and possibly for any US Mail personnel who might have to be along.  These trains handled both bulk mail baggage cars and working RPO cars and mostly were the pervue of the passenger department.  All bulk mail trains, especially on roads which did not have passenger service and those after the demise of the RPO, usually had one, maybe two cabooses.  Also, many so called mail trains, or trains handling mostly mail, also carried passengers sometimes as advertised in the timetables or for dead heading crews and railroad and Post Office personnel. But again, there were normal or expected rules, etc., but each railroad, division , branch, and circmstance was different.  There were standards but so what.

 

[efftenxrfe]

90 and 91, 19 and 20, not formally named psgr trains,  hauled a coach behind a bunch of storage mail and express cars,  an RPO,  a working baggage car mostly for company mail and supplies, and in season Railway Express reefers of strawberries.

But the coach was, excluding pass-riders and those unfortunates who were called to deadhead on that train, was a passenger car for the public.

A rider car provided space for, sometimes including the train crew, for escorts for a part of the train and sometimes for the whole train.  F'r instance:

On fridays, the banana boat loaded a 20 or so car train that was hot enough to warrant a rider coach instead of cab(oose) from Mission Bay for points east.

At Mare Island Navy Yard spent nuclear fuel  from submarines left in containers on cars guarded by military riding in a.....rider-car, actually a tricked out govt ride looking identical to a caboose.

We've read about drovers' cars accompanying live stock shipments.

Hi-Wide, High value loads get riders who sometimes get a rider car separated from the cab or eng but close enough to their object to observe.

Car  carrying the markers behind a mail and express train, and  a car carrying escorts;  rider-car? 

[daveklepper]

In later years, with many train offs, NYC mail and express trains even used lighweight coaches as rider cars.   Less expensive to maintain a newer car than repair an old derelic.   Once the Post office discontinuied railway post office services, the number of dedicated mail and express trains declined sharply and the remaining business was shifted to the remaining passenger trains, even including the SAL's Silver Meteor and Silver Star.   These two trains stopped being all stainless steel with convenitonal head end cars ahead of the sleepers and coaches.   I think this was true on the ACL, also.

[R.N. Nelson]

On the B&O, Mail and Express Trains 29,31,32, 40, and 351 had a Rider Coach. This was only for the train crew and any deadheads.

For a small  portion of Train 32's Chicago to Jersey City run, it provided service for revenue passengers as well. When on that portion, it was listed in the Public Timetable and had an A/C Coach  but for the majority of the  trip, where no revenue passengers were permitted,. older Coaches (some non A/C) tended to be used.. Same thing for Train 30, St, Louis-Cumberland, MD, which  carried passengers  over several portions of its trip. All of the Mail and Express trains also handled deadhead passenger and headend equipment when possible, being transferred to satisfy  equipment imbalances at some of the terminals.

Since the trains were First Class trains (but not listed in the Public Timetable, except for the portion where they did carry passengers), they traveled at passenger train speeds. And since a steam train line was provided, a Coach verses a Caboose was used. It was felt that the Coach would give a safer, more comfortable ride at the higher speeds.

Banana Specials on the B&O, on the other hand, used a Caboose for the train crew and the United Fruit Attendant who rode along and took temperature readings of the bananas at division points. Incidentally, he rode on a ticket going and had a coupon for his return trip (with no bananas) on a regular passenger train.

Because of the Caboose, The Banana Specials were a relatively rough ride compared to the Mail and Express trains since the Banana Specials also ran at passenger train speed. They did not have a steam train line, so any heating required for the bananas was furnished by portable heaters in the Boxcars.

Norman