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Steam from 1890 to WW1

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Steam from 1890 to WW1
Posted by Arkle on Thursday, May 24, 2012 3:34 PM

Being quite new to this forum, I've noticed how discussion about steam is mostly confined to the super-power era, or at least post-WW1 (this could be said of the internet in general).  But, what about the preceding era, 1890 to pre-WW1, an age arguably more fascinating, if not in terms of size & power, then certainly in terms of variety & style? Think how it spanned the end of 4-4-0 domination, the presence of ten-wheelers, prairies, moguls, consolidations, the brief rise-and-fall of high-stepping atlantics and the emergence of pacifics & mikados; narrow fireboxes between frames to wide fireboxes over trailing axles; slide valves to piston valves, inboard to outboard; saturated boilers to superheating; inside Stephensons to outside Walschaerts & Baker; camelbacks & wootten fireboxes; early mechanical stokers; early articulateds etc etc. As well as all of this variety, it was an era where steam locomotives looked elegant, and were nearly always polished to perfection. 

I sense we need to resurrect this period. Personally, I know only enough to know I know so little about it!  

So, what are peoples thoughts on the technology and what are their favourites from this era? It would be good to see some pictures, as there are so few about.

Regards

Dave

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Posted by Firelock76 on Thursday, May 24, 2012 4:08 PM

A man after my own heart!   I love steam engines, but I've always been especially fond of the 4-4-0's and 4-6-0's of the 1850 thru 1880 period.  Those machines were works of art!  What a shame color photography hadn't come along yet, the surviving black-and whites just give a tantalizing taste of how colorful those engines were.  That and the Currier and Ives prints and other contemporary print makers.

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Posted by wjstix on Saturday, May 26, 2012 5:34 PM

I think part of it is just practical - there's just not as much information, particularly photographic info. It's just easier to follow trains / locomotives / cars after 1920 or so.

Photography was the realm of professional photographers until the 1920's for the most part, so "railfan" photographs from before that time - though they do exist - are quite rare. Film of trains similarly is hard to find before the 1920's.

Plus, model railroading really got going in the early 1930's - Model Craftsman, Model Railroader magazines, and the NMRA, all came into being between 1930 and 1935. So at that point you had a lot more people not just watching / spotting trains, but going trackside to take pictures to use in modelling. Plus as a modeller, you had to work out what color a reefer car was with only a black and white photo to go by. It was easier for modern (i.e. 1930's) cars, because you could see the real thing. But what about a car built in 1885 and retired in 1922??

Stix
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Posted by gbrewer on Sunday, May 27, 2012 12:19 PM

Dave,

I completely agree with what you said.

As I said on my web page: "What were the "railroad glory days"? Well, for me the real glory days were the late nineteenth century when railroading was still the biggest and most dynamic industry ever know to man. But practically, for my purposes in this little web magazine, they are more recent: the last vestiges of the old ways things were done ..." -- that is things I have a memory to write about.

Still, there are some significant examples of preservation from this era.  A few 4-4-0s that occur to me at the moment are Dan Marcoff's beautiful Eureka & Palisade Number 4, the Eureka, several fine examples at the California State Railroad Museum, the Nevada State Railroad Museum and the B&O Museum, The General and the Texas, the two reproductions at Promontory, and the brand new Leviathan. So you see, there is some interest.

Glen Brewer

RailroadGloryDays.com


 

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Posted by Firelock76 on Sunday, May 27, 2012 4:16 PM

Listen Dave, if you want to get a taste of the color of 19th Century steam check the website of SMR Trains.  SMR specializes on "O" gauge models of "old timey"  steam engines.  OK, they're models, but man are they gorgeous!  Sadly there's no way I can afford any of them but they're fun to drool over.

Also check the websites of the museums one of the other posters mentioned.  Not enough pictures to make me happy but it's better than nothing.   By the way, if you ever find yourself in Baltimore try to make at least half a days time to see the B&O Museum.   I've been there myself several times and enjoyed it immensely.  Great collection of old-time steam, the best on the East Coast.

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Posted by Firelock76 on Monday, May 28, 2012 10:23 AM

Dave, one more thing.  Courtesy of poster Edbenton on the "Trains" magazine Forum, I've just "found" a website called Rail Road Pictures.net.   Check it out, there's some photos there of classic steam, 4-4-0's, 4-6-0's, and others.  Some photos are good, some not so good, but worth looking at.  Interestingly, some of the best looking steamers are at  Walt Disney World in Florida.  Don't laugh!  These are real steam engines, not replicas!  Walt was a railfan and a steam freak and insisted on real steam, not "dummys".

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Posted by gbrewer on Monday, May 28, 2012 11:03 AM

The Leviathan is running this weekend at the Illinois Railway Museum. See their web page: Illinois Railway Museum

Glen Brewer Railroad Glory Days

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 4:57 AM

And don't forget Prometory and The General

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Posted by Arkle on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 3:21 PM

Many thanks for all your replies. When I get a chance, I'll have a browse of those websites at leisure & hopefully enjoy the sight of some stately, well-kept machines.

Your points in general confirm my suspicions that the interest in steam is very much affected by our direct experiences of it, or at least the tales told us by our family & friends from the previous generation or two, which by definition puts a limited timeframe on what we know & love of steam (especially in my case, as I was born sometime after steam ended).

Nevertheless, I thought I'd point to some of my favourite pictures from the 1890-to-WW1 era, albeit captured in later years.

First, a Wabash ten-wheeler looking resplendent with inboard piston valves. Those polished cylinder & valve covers provide a fine touch.

http://www.yesteryeardepot.com/WB642.JPG

Second, a highly polished Wabash pacific, which I think was built just at the end of the era we're talking about.

http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p15330coll22/id/66548/rec/25

Enjoy

Regards

Dave


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Video
Posted by Stourbridge Lion on Friday, June 1, 2012 4:50 PM

A taste of Colorado Steam...

watch?v=u9kA5cS5uI

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Posted by Firelock76 on Friday, June 1, 2012 5:12 PM

Great video, thanks for posting it!  A question:  is this the locomotive, C&S #9, that had the bejabbers pounded out of it by the former operators of the Georgetown Loop RR? 

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Posted by gbrewer on Friday, June 1, 2012 5:18 PM

That's the one.

 

Glen Brewer

The Return of Colorado & Southern Number 9

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Posted by Firelock76 on Friday, June 1, 2012 6:56 PM

GROANNNNNNN...

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Posted by Stourbridge Lion on Friday, June 1, 2012 11:27 PM

... and I was sure glad I got the videos and photos of her running the loop before that happened!!!!!!!

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Posted by KCSfan on Saturday, June 2, 2012 6:26 PM

As a teenager I attended the Chicago Railroad Fair several times during its 1948-49 run and had the pleasure of seeing C&S No.9 running in the Wheels a Rolling pageant. One night I stayed on after the Fair had closed and spent an enjoyable couple of hours in and around the engine with the night man who was responsible for her after hours. At that time No. 9 still burned coal and I had the opportunity to throw an occasional few scoopfuls into her fire box , operate the injector, help dump the ash pan, and oil and grease around her running gear. As a side note, one of the Santa Fe's exhibits at the Fair was live critters native to the southwest, snakes, coyotes and the like. These would die off occasionally and while I was up in No.9's  cab a Santa Fe guy brought a dead rattle snake wrapped in newspaper which was unceremoniously cremated in the engine's fire box. Apparently this was a common practice whenever a dead critter had to be disposed of.

Mark

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Posted by gbrewer on Saturday, June 2, 2012 7:02 PM

Mark,

At least I can say that I was there too in 1949, but I remember very little.

 How many others reading this were there?

 

Glen Brewer

RailroadGloryDays.com

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, June 4, 2012 3:07 AM

I did not make it to Chicago in 1949.  I did get to see the abandoned grade with ties still in place of the Bridgeton and Harrison 2-ft Maine narrow gauge, hower.

I did see Hungerford's Railroads on Parade pageant several times at the NY Worlds Fair 1939 and 1940.  I remember the De Witt Clinton repllica in steam, and of course the curtain for the show was a Dryfuss streanlined J3A and the Lowry streamlined K4.   And the S1 was on display in motion with its wheels turning over track wheels, the locomotive not moving, but the wheels turning and siderods and valve gear working.   I remember the cutaway open-side Pullman to view the interior.  And I think there was a Prometory reenectment with approprate 4-4-0's.

I once rode behind an E-6 Atlantic between the town at Fort Monmouth's east gate and Princeton Junction.  Plenty of riding behind B&M Moguls.   The Suncook Valley mixed.   And behind Strassburg's D-16 4-4-0 before it was sidelined.   Behind CofNJ camelback 4-6-0's.   Small power certainly has a lot of charm.

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