Pullman brown

[NP Eddie]

A retired UPS employee told me that the color of UPS trucks is "Pullman Brown" and that the Pullman company painted their cars that color at one time.

I never that color on heavyweight Pullman cars.

Can any one shed some light on this?

 

Thanks,

 

Ed Burns

Happily Retired NP-BN-BNSF Clerk from Minneapolis.

[BaltACD]

I have only ever heard of 'Pullman Green'.

[FlyingCrow]

True.    The familiar "Green" color and it's variations (also known as Federal Mailbox Green) came into use during the Robert Todd Lincoln administration of the Pullman Company.     In the "wood" era their cars were painted in the deep brown you do see on UPS vehicles today.

[Firelock76]

Anyone ever notice that "Pullman Green"  is very, very close to the "Olive Drab"  color military vehicles and equipment used to be painted?   Must have been some pretty tough paint!   It probably iinfluenced R.T Lincolns decision to use it, it was in use by the Army at least as far back as the 19th Century, and Lincoln was the Secretary of War at one time.

[daveklepper]

Pullman blankets were usually ligh brown with dark browh stripes and "Pullman."

[wjstix]

Firelock76

Anyone ever notice that "Pullman Green"  is very, very close to the "Olive Drab"  color military vehicles and equipment used to be painted?

Yes, in fact I use Tamiya "Olive Drab" to paint my passenger cars.  Probably the most accurate Pullman Green is Badger Accuflex paint, but under model RR lighting it looks too dark to me. The Tamiya O.D. is a bit lighter shade of green.

 

[Firelock76]

Just a little historic fact everyone may enjoy:  Back in the 80's I was reading a Civil War re-enactor magazine, and there was an article about artillery re-enactors.  Seems they were agonizing about the right color to paint the cannon carriages.  They found out after some exhaustive research that the carriages were painted essentially the same "Olive Drab"  color that military equipment was painted in the 20th Century.  So you see, "OD"  goes back a long, long way!

[daveklepper]

If I remember correctly, Pullman blankets were light brown with lettering and stripes dark brown.

[wjstix]

I remember some years back reading about the Mesaba Railway, a short-lived electric interurban line on the Mesabi Iron Range in Minnesota. The author had tracked down an employee (I believe the railroad had closed c.1929 or 1930) and asked them what color the equipment was. He had stated it was (IIRC) "Pullman car brown" which the author assumed meant Pullman green that had faded to a brownish hue. I wonder now if they really were painted "Pullman brown"??

BTW I know in it's first decades, Northern Pacific passenger cars were brown.

http://www.biblio.com/books/432492109.html

 

[Great Western]

In mainland Europe, as many will know, Pullman cars were usually Blue and white/cream.  In the UK they were usually Brown and some cream.    Car No.13, currently owned by the Dart Valley PLC which operates the Dartmouth Riverrail fleet of boats, trains and buses.  Sadly I don't seem able to post pics here.

I am a volunteer on the railway side of the operations.

http://www.dartmouthrailriver.co.uk/

This video shows cars are painted in a similar style to Pullman cars but they are not pullmans.

http://www.dartmouthrailriver.co.uk/videos

[daveklepper]

In Great Britain, the word PUllman was usually not applied to sleeping cars, but to what in the USA would be called parlor cars, except my memory says they were usually with 1 and 2 facing seating, with tables and usually a high tea (tea or coffe or other beverage and scones, with jam, a sort of cake with jam) was served or a continental breakfast, as part of service, dpending on time of day.   The Southern Railway had the Brighton Belle, mu electric third rail Pullman cars between London and Brighton, and the Bournmouth Belle, which when I rode it in 1962 was still pulled by Bullasrd? Pacifics.   Yes, they were chocolate with cream between the windows and stripes and lettereing.  But later some blue diesel semi mu's, power car on each end with trailers between, Pullmans were introduced on some liens.

Sleeping carse were  jsut called sleeping cars,. not PUllmans.

 

And on the Continent, the word was Wagon Lits for sleeping cars.  And they were blue.

[West Coast S]

Possibly the correct name is Leaf Brown,  the orginal roof and truck colors for early UP-SP lightweight equiptment.  However, I would not dismiss out of hand the possibilty of a Pullman Brown used for interior and furnishings for example, but to my knowledge no such color was ever used on exteriors.  

SP/UP common standard formulas specified the addtion of brown to olive for heavyweight and PFE express reefers.  We modlers and historians are fortunate there are surviving CS charts for the olive, early PFE yellow, sash & trim red, interurban red, PFE Gray-PFE brown. The chart specific to CS brown is not among those preserved leaving speculation as to the exact formula and mixing ratios.  

Dave

[wjstix]

John H. White's two-part book "The American Railroad Passenger Car" notes that before the US Civil War, passenger cars were often very brightly colored - the most common base color being straw yellow, often with bright accent colors. However, as early as 1856, critics were noting that the cars often seemed toy-like and gaudy. It was also noted that car builders had craftsman capable of doing very ornate paint schemes, but most railroads did not, so when the cars were repainted by the railroads the result was often very amateurish. Plus the growing popularity of coal burning engines (vs. the earlier wood burners) meant that the cars soon had a dark layer of coal soot over them.

White notes that Lewis Mumford cites 1865 as the start of "the brown decades" in passenger car colors, when chocolate brown, dark green, dark blue, and plum colors became normal. These darker colors stood up better, and showed dirt and soot less than brighter colors had. Also, darker colors were easier to paint, often requiring fewer coats than lighter colors.

Not sure exactly when Pullman Green became the standard color for Pullman, but I think it was in the 1880's.