The E-Unit article, passenger railroads without them, E's with dynamic brakes

[daveklepper]

1.  The article's lists did not note which E-8's and E-9's had dynamic brakes.   Can someone provide this information?

 

2.   My list of passenger railroads that did not own E-units. without the article in front of me, not counting electric interurban lines -and that did run diesel powered passenger trains, runs as follows:

Ann Arbor, Bangor and Aroostick, Canadian National, Central of NJ (hosted B&O's), Delawareand Hudson, Denver and Rio Grande Western, Norfolk & Western (hosted Southern's), NYO&W, PRSL, Reading (hosted B&O's), Western Pacific

Others can add to the list.

[jrbernier]

[quote user="daveklepper"]

1.  The article's lists did not note which E-8's and E-9's had dynamic brakes.   Can someone provide this information?  Southern Pacific, Union Pacifc, Milwaukee Road, and maybe Southern Railway.

 

2.   My list of passenger railroads that did not own E-units. without the article in front of me, not counting electric interurban lines -and that did run diesel powered passenger trains, runs as follows:

Ann Arbor, Bangor and Aroostick, Canadian National, Central of NJ (hosted B&O's), Delaware and Hudson, Denver and Rio Grande Western, Norfolk & Western (hosted Southern's), NYO&W, PRSL, Reading (hosted B&O's), Western Pacific

Others can add to the list - BAR owned 2 E7A units

[/quote - Soo Line. Northern Pacific, Chicago Great Western, Minneapolis & St Louis, Nickel Plate Road, Duluth, South Shore & Atlantic , Duluth, Missabe & Iron Range and Duluth Winnipeg & Pacific.

  All of the above has steam powered passenger service that was dieselized or went to Budd RDC cars(M&StL/DM&IR/DW&P/DSS&A).

[daveklepper]

Sorry a bout the BAR error.  The article clearly stated the BAR's ownership, the second smallest fleet, with the Spokane Portland and Seattle having only one E-unit.

Can you go back to your list and mine and single out those who dieselized with:

Only road switchers,  like N&W

Only F-units

Partly or fully with RDC's. 

[wjstix]

daveklepper

Can you go back to your list and mine and single out those who dieselized with:

Only road switchers,  like N&W

Only F-units

Partly or fully with RDC's. 

I suspect relatively few railroads did just one thing.

For example, the DM&IR as noted went directly from steam powered passenger trains to an RDC; however, they also about the same time had two of their new SD-9s (No.129 and 130) delivered with steam generators as back-ups to the RDC. Interestingly these units were leased to Amtrak for a time in the early seventies and worked on passenger trains.

The Soo Line bought FP's for passenger service, but also had steam generator equipped GP's. Both types were used in passenger and freight service.

[jrbernier]

  Not 100% here, but should be close....

SOO - FP7A/F7B/boiler GP9's

NP - F3A/F3B/F7A/FP7A/F7B/F9A/F9B/boiler GP7's/RDC's

CGW - F3A/F7A/FP7A/F7B

M&StL - RDC's/Gas Electrics

NKP - PA-1's for sure

DSS&A - boiler RS1's and a single RDC-1

DM&IR - 2 boiler SD9's and a single RDC-3

DW&P - A single RDC-3

Jim

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

More additions:

MON - F3A's/RS2's, replaced by C420's

LIRR - A smorgasbord of minority builders

LV - PA1's and an RDC

[daveklepper]

and of course N&W with boiler GP-9's, and D&H with boiler RS-3's and then two ex-AT&SF PA's.

[SSW9389]

E8s with Dynamic Brakes are: EMD 952 to Rock Island 643; SP 6018; Southern 6906-6915; UP 925-942, 922B-949B.

E9s with Dynamic Brakes are: Milwaukee 200ABC-205ABC; SP 6046-6054; UP 900-914, 943-962, 950B-974B.

Second owners of E8s and E9s with Dynamic Brakes: Amtrak, Rock Island and C&NW.

Source of data Extra 2200 South Issue #43 November December 1973.

Ed in Kentucky

 

[SHKarlson]

Neither of these carriers are EMD railroads, and neither rostered a cab unit.  Detroit and Mackinac, Delaware and Hudson.

[SHKarlson]

Somebody correctly pointed out the D&H PAs, which were secondhand, the carrier dieselized exclusively with Alco hood units.

[doctorwayne]

The TH&B dieselised their passenger service with three boiler-equipped GP9s (set-up to run long hood forward).  Part-owner NYC ran their E-units on some TH&B trains as did, I think, the CPR, another part-owner of the line.  This was on the Buffalo-Toronto service, which was later covered by CPR RDCs.

Wayne

[Kootenay Central]

Thank You.

[rcdrye]

Central Vermont had boiler GP9s right up into the 1980s.  Rutland's RS2's had steam generators for the Green Mountain Flyer and Mount  Royal, plus milk trains (In pool service they ran to Boston or Troy NY on the B&M).  NKP had the PAs, boiler GP9s and a pair of boiler DL702's (RS32?).  New Haven had steam generators in GP9s, RS2/3/11s and H-16-44s.  In earlier days NH had DL109s, PAs and a few FM CPA20-45 C-Liners.  At the end NH had those 60 FL9s with third rail shoes.

On the other coast, even though SP had E7/8/9s and PA1/2/3s, in later years the FP7/F7Bs were common on mountain runs.  Every SP SD9 either had a boiler or MU controls for boilers.  Most SD7s had boilers.  SP also had 12 dual control boiler GP9s of which 11 retained their boilers until Caltrain took over, along with a few single enders that lost their boilers early.  SP SDP45s worked for Amtrak until early 1973/74, when they were moved into the San Francisco "Commute" pool to replace FM H-24-66 Trainmasters.

Cotton Belt had a pair of PA1s, an FP7, and a GP7 with boilers (only one on SP/SSW system)

[Stourbridge Lion]

rcdrye- Welcome to trains.com!

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Minor correction:  NKP 475-484 were s/g-equipped GP9's, NKP 875-876 were s/g-equipped RS36's (DL701).  What may be causing some confusion is that NKP 325-333  were freight-service RSD12's (DL702).

[Dave Jones]

It's true that the first N&W owned diesel passenger units were the GP-9s, N&W at various times prior to their arrival leased E-units from both ACL and RF&P all of which wore their delivery paint schemes.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

N&W inherited a small batch of E7/8's from Wabash on October 15, 1964.  The E7A's and most of the E8A's were retired without ever being renumbered.  I believe that only 3 or 4 E8A's were renumbered and repainted for N&W in the low 3800 series.  As an aside, N&W also inherited three WAB PA1's but they were retired without being renumbered or repainted.

[efftenxrfe]

Recollections, not facts but with time I can, I think, verify.....

The "SF/COM" pool GP9s were dual-control-stand engines. TNO  GP9s numbered in the 280's(?) were transferred in during the early 60's and I recall they too had 2 'stands.

All the other GP9s had ovular,  steel contained, about 3 feet high, lumps of concrete where the steam generator would exist. And a single control stand, short-hood "F."

SD9s were strangers on the Coast then, but as time went by,  that many had boiler controls and steam pipes seems correct; I think not all were.

While we're here: the demo DL701s were bought by SP and landed in the 5720's in the  early 60's. While checking loading of the units leaving Santa Barb, I entered one which was set- up for long-hood forward.

Does anyone opine about whether it had a steam generator, steam trainline......ya'know, like maybe it was to demo for commuter service.

Wish I'd taken the opportunity to look in the short hood........

One more ride way out there.......Pioneers   

[daveklepper]

And of course, there was regular N&W use of Southern E-units between Monroe and Bristol, starting with the John Louis Coal Strike of 1948.

[EunitSteve]

The New Haven first dieselized in 1940 with 60 DL 109A units.

They were ussd in passenger serviice by day and freight by night..

Ater the war, it was FA's for the hilly Maybrook line, and PA's and then  FM C-Liners.

A litle later, in 1956 and 1960, they received two batches of 30 B-A1A FL9's. The AiA truck, as  with the E's, was needed to lower the axle loading. this tme it was to allow use on  the Park Avenue viaduct in NYC.They were dual mode, able to run all electric required by law i NY City. 

They were sort of an F and a half, among gther names, I'm sure... 

[EunitSteve]

I guess I can speak for New England a bit more: 

Boston and Maine initially dieselized freight, or some of it anyway with FT's in 1943-44, and E-7's for some passenger, especially the Boston-Portland (Me.) service.

The FT''s lasted only 12 years, and were traded in for GP-9's.

In 1954, they began to convert all of their passenger services to RDC's.I think that thry were done with this in 1956., and I am going to,leap at a guess of 264 of these cars from lonfg=ago reading.of Bob Willohby Jones'  books.

If RDC's jhad been availab le in the 1947--50 period, I would  imagine that They would have started dieselization with them.....so, did they dieselize with RDC's? Well, not technically, but maybe practically.

[daveklepper]

But the B&M put their FT to work on passenger trains also, first by have a few steam generator cars, and then by installing boilers in the B units, which had space for them.   In passenger service they generally ran with and A and B.   In freight service they started out as A-B-B-A, but quicly moved to an A-B-A or A-B-B formation for their heaviest trains.   This in some cases involved replacing drawbars with couplers.

The B&M used a lot of GP-7's and Alco RS-2's and/or RS-3's with boilers and head end lighting power in Boston suburban passenger service until the RDC's took over completely.   The GP-7's were in the 1600 series and the slightly earlier Alco's in the 1500 series.  

I rode 1567 and 1568 many times in connection with my MIT SB-EE thesis.  Ran a freight once too.