UP 4-12-2 in passenger service?

[Firelock76]

OK, I hit the books on this one, specifically "The American Steam Locomotive- Volume 1, The Evolution of the Steam Locomotive"  by F.M. Swengel.  Swengel states that the 9000's were originally rated for 35 mph tops, but were found to be so well built and balanced the speed was upped to the 50-55 mph range.  Some were re-equipped with disc drivers that upped the speed again to 60 mph, and some of those were equipped with train heat lines and DID haul heavy passenger trains on occasion, but their main purpose in life was a freight haulers.  So, it WAS done!

[Firelock76]

I've never seen a picture of a 4-12-2 on a passenger consist, but you know, NEVER say never.  2-8-2's were intended as freight power but there were plenty of times different roads used them to "pinch-hit" on passenger trains.  I would say it's possible the UP might have used a 9000 on a passenger train even if there's no photo evidence to back it up.

[De Luxe]

timz

Never seen a pic of a 4-12-2 on passenger, except that Trains pic of the frozen 4-12-2 ahead of the diesels in the 1949 blizzard.

Never heard of that blizzard story before! Sounds interesting! Are there any photos of it available online that you could give me the link to?

[De Luxe]

KCSfan

YIn the back of my mind I seem to recall that some (if not all) of them were rebuilt as conventional 2-cylinder engines. Am I right about this?

Hey Mark,

probably you confused the info about the 4-10-2 Overland type with the 4-12-2 type. The 10  4-10-2 engines were built in 1925 and 1926 as coalburners and were converted to oilburners in 1929. They did not fil the needs of the UP, so UP already produced the first 4-12-2 later in the same year the 4-10-2 were built (1926)! In contrary to the 4-12-2, UP faced several problems with the 3-cylinder design on it´s 4-10-2 engines, so all 10 were rebuilt as 2-cylinder engines in 1942. Interestingly,  UP never had problems with the third cylinder of their 4-12-2´s, and they were never rebuilt to 2-cylinder engines and kept their third cylinder right until the very end in 1956. Although UP´s 4-10-2 wasn´t a succesfull design, the locomotives improved a bit after the 1942 conversion to a 2-cylinder design, so despite all the problems they had relatively long lives from 1925 to 1954 when the last of them quit service. I´ve seen a couple of photos of the 4-10-2 engines in helper service on passenger trains, often assisting Mountains or Northerns over the passes. But still I haven´t seen a single photo of a 4-12-2 pulling passenger trains, wether as road nor as helper engine.

[timz]

All the 4-12-2s kept their three cylinders to the end.

Never seen a pic of a 4-12-2 on passenger, except that Trains pic of the frozen 4-12-2 ahead of the diesels in the 1949 blizzard. Timetable maximum was 50 mph in 1946 and 1954.

[KCSfan]

You are right the 4-12-2"s were definitely built for freight service. But they were built for fast freight service and with 67" drivers were capable of running at passenger train speeds - probably about 70 mph tops. Like you, I'm inclined to think they were had far more power than would be required for passenger service with the possible exception of on the heaviest trains on the steepest grades. In those situations I think it would be more practical to head the train with a faster 4-8-2 assisted by a helper on the grades.

I know the 4-12-2's were built with 3-cylinders and I've read that  the third cylinder located inside the engine frame was a maintenance nightmare. In the back of my mind I seem to recall that some (if not all) of them were rebuilt as conventional 2-cylinder engines. Am I right about this?

Mark

[De Luxe]

Hello,

recently I read in a german magazine about railroad-history, that the Union Pacific 4-12-2 steamers were also used in regular passenger service from 1926 to 1936 when the first Challengers arrived. I really wondered about that, because I always thought that the 9000 class was built for freight trains only, and because I never saw a photo of a 4-12-2 in front of a passenger train. I always thought that in the pre Northern/Challenger days, UP passenger trains were pulled by doubleheading 4-8-2 Mountains over Sherman Hill and Wasatch Pass, and by single 4-8-2 Mountain + 4-10-2 Overland helper over Cajon Pass. Therefore I would like to know, on which divisions/parts of the UP system the 9000 class has been working in passenger service if that was the case. And then I got another question: I know that the very last 4-12-2´s quit service in 1956. But where was that territory where they survived the longest? In Kansas, Nebraska, Colorado, Wyoming, Utah, Idaho, Oregon, Nevada or California?