Katy Fans - Question From UK

[Arkle]

FlyingCrow

Even though I Iive 6000 miles away in England, I've known about the mid-West-situated Ozarks ever since I was a boy, when I discovered a wonderful Lucius Beebe album (I think) that had photos of Frisco 4300/4400s powering over those very same mountains. Very evocative pictures, and the word "Ozarks" became legendary in my young mind. I also learnt about a railroad with the bizarre name of "The Katy" from that same album (at least it was a bizarre name to a British rail-fan used to formal UK railway names!). When I eventually discovered the Katy's routes, I got the impression that it avoided the Ozarks, and wasn't aware of all the other mid-West obstacles that it faced. So, thanks for the corrected impression.

cefinkjr

You're confirming my impression of a railroad in perpetual financial straits, but still very proud of what it had, judging by the immaculate "spit and polish" look of its machines. 

There is something special about the appearance of Katy locomotives. Here's some of my favourite images from around the internet:

Here's a great one. It has a rare quality to it that makes you think you're in the picture - something to do with the high view point and closeness of the subject.

http://209.85.120.98/viewphoto.php?id=387409&nseq=2

 Here's a trio from Otto Perry:

http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p15330coll22/id/64880/rec/1

http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p15330coll22/id/64874/rec/5

http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p15330coll22/id/64865/rec/4

I've yet to see a photo of a double-header freight, as mentioned earlier in this thread.

Enjoy!

[cefinkjr]

  Welcome to our forum.  Nice to have a little different perspective once in a while.  I always recall John Armstrong's line that US and UK railroads were "just the same but different".

I can't get into any detail in spite of residing near Katy territory but rather than "under-estimating Katy's freight power", I think you may be over-estimating Katy's success as a railroad.  John Barringer (sp?), after moving from the presidency of Katy to the same job on the P&LE, said that the Katy was the only road he knew that had derailments  of standing equipment. 

[FlyingCrow]

Arkle

Welcome to the club, largely dominated by "western" and "coalfield" railfans who believe, mostly, that Kansas , Oklahoma, Missouri and Arkansas are large flat prairies supporting sunflowers and buffalo.   I can assure you that there would be many a worn out Kansas City Southern fireman who would love to hear that the likes of the Ozark, Boston and Ouachita mountains were no match for those lumbering hand fired mallets owned by that road.

Likewise the huge valleys created by the Cimarron, Canadian, Neosho, Red, Arkansas and other cross plains rivers, basically did not exist.   

Somehow, getting from St Louis and Kansas City to Texas and Gulf markets, was not the easy road as everybody suspected.   The Katy, who would not buy a new locomotive in years....until dieselization.... made the best out of what it had.

 

[Arkle]

Thanks all for your replies. 

AltonFan, interesting economic angle on the issue. I had only been thinking from a narrow operating perspective. But, there are many other issues that can affect the running of a railroad.

FlyingCrow, I had no idea the Katy had such significant grades on its main. I guess that explains the boosters fitted to some of their mikados.

Stourbridge Lion, thanks for the welcome. 

[Arkle]

henry6

I was thinking more of the Katy's direct competitors such as the Frisco (sometimes collaborator), MoPac & Rock Island. These had burly, big-wheeled mountains and northerns designed to both race & climb. So, I'm not sure how the Katy's 61" drivered mikados compared?

[FlyingCrow]

The Missouri-Kansas-Texas was somewhat of an anomaly when it came to steam power.    For a railroad of such stature, the L-2-d 2-8-2's were its largest steam power, while"adjacent" competitors flirted with engines as large as 2-10-4's.

You can basically thank one Matthew Sloan for this.   Sloan was the consummate railroad president.  He insisted on spit polish and more spit everywhere on the Katy .    All facilities were extra *** and span, locomotives track and rolling stock in mint, first class condition at all times.

With a huge fleet of pre and post USRA mikes, Sloan made them the pivotal freight motive power and Katy trains were frequently double headed, long, and mostly tank cars of Texas oil...especially during the war.     

Some may think of the Katy as a "flat track" profile...not so.    Crossing rivers on the angle all the way to Texas created all sorts of grade challenges for Katy's locomotive fleet...especially the Red River valley between OK and Texas.

[AltonFan]

My understanding is that the MKT had financial difficulties for much of its history, and came close to total disaster on more than one occasion.

Another factor is that the Interstate Commerce Commission (ICC), which regulated US transportation during the period you are interested in, had a tendency to manage competition to guarantee that all the players survived.

[henry6]

The Missouri, Kansas, Texas, or MKT or KT or KATY, ran locomotives and services for its route needs.  Comparing it to the mountain railroads of the east or thrugh the western Rockies would show different locomotiive and route needs; the Katy needing less brute and more speed.  It did not parallel the UP, DR&GW, Burlington, etc, through the Rockies but skirted the east side through the plaines, thus the need was for locomotives that could stretch their legs in long gallops over long flat stretches accentuated by rolling hills rather than steep mountain grades.

 

[Stourbridge Lion]

Arkle - Welcome to Trains.com 

[Arkle]

Although I live in the UK, I've had a long-running fascination with American Railroads. One in particular has always captured my imagination, and that's the Katy - something to do with its perseverance with mikados and pacifics in the face of all that super-power owned by its rivals.

But, therein lies my question: how did it compete, especially regards fast freight service? Was it a case of any of the following?

a) Did it have flatter, more direct routes allowing those mikados to haul tonnage and maintain times equivalent to its super-powered, longer-routed rivals?

b) Did it run a more frequent freight service with lighter loads, again helping its mikados keep speeds high?

c) Was the Katy cleverer at scheduling and handling freight than its rivals? 

d) Am I under-estimating the Katy's freight power?

We don't get much info on our favourite US railroads over here in the UK. Forums like this are often our only chance.

Looking forward  to your response.