I have another great dining car memory that I'll mention. While a student at the Univ. of Illinois in the 1950's I'd often often ride the IC's Creole on Friday evenings from Champaign to Chicago (later to Homewood after that stop was added) for a weekend back home. The Creole was a popular train with Champaign riders because of its around 5 pm departure and 8 o'clock arrival in Chicago. An old cafe-lounge car and, depending on the day of the week, 2-3 heavyweight coaches modernized with reclining seats were add to the train at Champaign. Because of limited finances I was never able to purchase a full meal but I'd always head to the cafe-lounge for a piece of its signature apple pie and a cup of coffee. The pies were the best I've ever eaten and were baked from scratch on board in coal fired ovens while the car waited in the coach yard at Champaign for the arrival of the Creole. The crust was always flaky and the apple filling sweet with just the right hint of tartness. When topped with a scoop of ice cream or a thick slice of sharp cheddar cheese they were truly fit for a king.
Some of you have mentioned that you never had a bad dining car meal in pre-Amtrak days. I too can say that with but one exception. That was in 1962 when I rode the PRR's Manhattan Limited from Chicago to NY. I took that train because its early morning arrival would enable me to get to a 9 o'clock business meeting in Manhattan - wrong; it kept losing more and more time enroute and I deserted it in Pittsburg and boarded the Broadway Ltd for the rest of the way. Until that trip I didn't realize how badly the Pennsy's secondary trains had deteriorated. The Manhattan Ltd carried a sorry excuse for a dining car - windows so dirty you could barely see out of them and the car's interior not much cleaner, indifferent waiters and miserable food. My first meal was lunch and I ordered a BLT sandwich with potato chips and a soft drink. When my food finally arrived the toast was burned and the mayonnaise so rancid that I could barely eat the sandwich. Dinner on board was as miserable as the lunch had been. I don't remember what I had for dinner but it doesn't matter because by that time I was numb from all the indignites heaped upon me by the PRR.
Mark
I have always found two 'restaurant' traditions curious - The railroads custom of having the customer write out their order on the diner and the custom in many Chinese restaurants of having the wait staff take the order without writing down anything. Both methods seemed to work for those doing it.
Curious!
Sunnyland I can remember the fine china and the heavy flatware, the white linen tablecloths and flower vases. Even if my parents and I were riding coach on a pass, we got the same upscale treatment as the Pullman passengers. Dad always wrote up the menu, he said it was a tradition that started in the days when the African-American waiters did not read or write, so passengers did it and the steward read the menu to the waiters. I've heard that from other people too. Thanks for sharing your memories and letting me remember some wonderful times of my own.
I can remember the fine china and the heavy flatware, the white linen tablecloths and flower vases. Even if my parents and I were riding coach on a pass, we got the same upscale treatment as the Pullman passengers. Dad always wrote up the menu, he said it was a tradition that started in the days when the African-American waiters did not read or write, so passengers did it and the steward read the menu to the waiters. I've heard that from other people too.
Thanks for sharing your memories and letting me remember some wonderful times of my own.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
In the early 60's, not a great time for NYC passenger service, I was in my early teens and traveling with my younger brother from Schenectady, NY to Rhineclff in the middle of the Hudson Valley. My grandfather got us on the train and we headed east, not very far but very fast to Albany. Trains seemed to linger in Albany. Many times they arrived on time and departed very late. During the long wait, we got hungry and discovered there was a diner in the consist. We were about the only patrons and were treated liked captains of industry by a kindly waiter. To this day I remember the taste of that cheese sandwich. Everything is better on a train.
Mike
Lots of memories came back reading these replies. I rode in many diners with my parents as we traveled all over on Dad's Frisco pass.
One memorable time was in a snack car/diner on UP City of St. Louis. The waiters kept dropping plates and cups and Dad said something must be going on, they are used to this. Later in the dome car, we talked to a man who had been clocking the mileposts and he said we'd been going about 100 mph. We had been running late when we left Green River, WY and I guess the "hogger" opened up the throttle and let her fly. This was in 1959 and couldn't happen today with speed limits etc. We knew why the waiters were dropping the dishes, they were not used to going that fast.
Another memorable diner trip was with two friends. We'd traveled Pullman on City of St. Louis so none of us had to ride with a stranger. On the return from Los Angeles, we asked at ticket counter where to board the City of Los Angeles. The lady directed us to the proper gate. I was walking around saw a sign for City of LA coach and one for City of LA Pullman. I went back and asked her, she said "you're traveling Pullman" and I said yes, and she directed us to the proper gate after apologizing. I guess she was not used to seeing three teenage girls riding Pullman. But we had the dome diner, which was something very different. My parents and I had seen one on our trip west, but this time I was actually riding and eating in one.
And in the fall of 2010, I got to ride in a dome diner again on the UP steam special pulled by #844, it was just a box lunch and supper, but the experience was magical once again as we watched people pacing the train and some getting pulled over by cops.
I have been on Amtrak long distance and the food has been excellent also. One waiter even let me see the kitchen underneath the diner when it wasn't busy. He knew my RR background.
In early 1961, I was a very timid Air Force E-2 (Airman Third Class, heading from my home in S.C. to my first permanent base. I was fresh out of basic training and tech school, and was still VERY leery of anything that even LOOKED like an officer. Traveling on ACL's Champion, I made my way to the diner, and found it nearly full. The car host sat me at a table with a very distinguished-looking gentleman and his wife -- who offered to buy my breakfast! They tried to be conversational during the meal, but I'm afraid they didn't get a whole lot out of me, other than "Yes, sir!" or "Yes, ma'am". wish I had at least gotten their names!
/Lone
Remember: In South Carolina, North is southeast of Due West... HIOAg /Bill
And why did not the "Embers" author recount his experience and food in the Merchants Limited diner?
The "Dining Car Memories" brought back many memories. My mother loved trains and thus I do also.
I remember the B&O Speedliner dining section of the modified RDC car. The Soo Line's "Laker" was a treat--their french toast was the best.
When I was in high school, I would take a the Afternoon Zephyr from Minneapolis to St. Paul, then take the NP's North Coast Limited back to Minneapolis. As soon as the NCL stopped, I headed to the diner and order a piece of pie. What a treat while riding from St. Paul to Minneapolis.
Ed Burns of Anoka, MN
Another memory: Riding the overnight Winnipeger sleeper between Winnapeg and St. Paul, having taken my copy of TRAINS with me to read on the trip. Carrying the magazine into the diner-lounge, ordering, and in comes a tall man and sits across from me. "So, you are a trains reader, how do like the cover photograph?" "Great!" I answered. "It's mky photograph, I took it." "What,. you must be Phil Hastings!: "That I am," The upshot was that I was able to join him for a cab right in the E-unit between Crookston and Grand Forks. Funny that I remember it as an E-8, but I have been told that the GN had nothing later than E-7's. Is it possible that they applied the upper side stainless grilles to an E-7 duirng overhaul? I don't remember the food, but we did talk a lot about trains we rode and would ride. He was particularly interested in my Euorpean travels, limited though they were.
Oh, I completely forgot in my previous post... In the mid-1970's I rode Amtrak's "Broadway Ltd" one summer evening from Chicago, where I was then living, to Crestline, OH, where my brother met me and drove me to Columbus for a family visit. At diner time I was seated in the diner with a young husband and wife who, I soon learned, were Amtrak service directors, if memory serves. As we chatted, I asked them if I had just spotted tennis star Billie Jean King on the train. "No," the wife replied, "but Pearl Bailey is sitting right back there." I'd heard that Ms. Bailey disliked flying and took the train whenever possible.
After ordering, I excused myself and - in what can only be described as a late 20ish, star-struck indiscretion, I shyly approached Pearl Bailey's table. She and her children had already finished dining. Spotting me from the corner of her eye, she looked up and greeted me. "Hello, honey! Have a seat with us, please!" I explained that I'd already ordered at another table but just wanted to say hello. A pleasant, if short, conversation followed. "Oh, I don't know what's wrong with folks these days in this sad world," she lamented. "But Pearlie May's gonna throw a big party for all of 'em and that'll fix things up!"
Wanting to express my admiration for a classic star, all that would come out was, "You know, Ms. Bailey, a lot of us young people really like your work, too."
"Oh, honey, I ain't that old, you know," she replied, laughing. "You know, honey, I'm on my way to Atlanta to sing the "Star Spangled Banner" at that game where Hank Aaron is gonna hit the record breaking home run."
"Oh, that's great, Ms. Bailey," I offered. And then, thinking of that protest sport of the time, I added, "But I sure hope none of those streakers dash through the ball park while you're singing!"
Pearl Bailey cocked her head back and forth and looked me with a grin. "Honey, I am too old for that!"
Stan, as a boy I rode the train a few times a year with my dad, mainly between Columbus, OH and Cincinnati or Dayton. But my first ever dining car experience came aboard NYC's "Ohio State Limited" from Columbus to New York when I traveled to visit a college chum who lived in Brooklyn. (He and I were Ohio U. Bobcats, not OSU Buckeyes, but I was thrilled to ride the same train I'd watched pass near my boyhood home for many years, no matter what its name.)
The overnight run through upstate New York along the Water Level Route was behind us. The August (1965) morning sun had risen as the train rolled southward from Albany through the gorgeous Hudson River Valley. The jovial steward greeted and seated me in the diner, singing "Hello, Dolly!" non-stop all the while. After scanning the menu, I soon learned that railway diners write their orders, rather than speaking them to the steward. Mile after mile of stunning scenery rolled by at speed as I hungrily awaited my bacon, eggs, toast, jam and coffee. I can't recall who my traveling table mates were, in their coats, ties, and dresses, but I surely felt very mature to be in their company. And then, here came my order with a big smile. Fine china and silver was spread before me, and was that coffee service silver or pewter? No mater, this college boy knew he was living high, if only for a while. That called for a big tip! Seldom had a breakfast ever tasted better or meant more to me.
A week later, I returned from NYC to Columbus on the PRR's "Spirit of St. Louis." A seasoned solo overnight rail traveler now, I enjoyed a sumptuous dinner aboard the "Spirit" somewhere near Harrisburg, as I recall.
Since then, I've dined several times with my wife aboard European and So. American trains and, just last November, aboard Amtrak's "Coast Starlight" between LA and Salinas - a delicious travel treat. Each of those later on board meals recalled for me that first, unforgettable dining car experience, now some 47 years ago. Thanks for asking us to share!
I rode the 20th Century once before coaches and then later slumbercoaches were introduced. I went NY-Chicago on the Century in a roomette, and returned with stopover in Princeton (needing debarking at N. Phila, then Trenton (parlor car), then Princeton Jc. (via mu) etc., on the Broadway. The Century was every bit as wonderful. And had one extra: In addition to shoeshine, pants pressed! (I did not try the barber!) Tne food was terrific all four times, dinner and breakfast on both trains. I rode it several times later, and the food continued to be fine, even when in was downgraded to a nameless multiservice train. But the food service on other NYC (and PRR) trains did deteriorate, especiallyi when snack-bar or cafe service was substituted for regular dining cars. Even under Amtrak, food on the Broadway was very very good, as long as that train lasted.
One of my most favorite memories is of an incident that occurred on a Broadway Limited diner in 1967. I recall the year because I had just been hired that day by the NYC and treated myself to a ride on our competitor's flagship (my home was nearer the PRR main than the Central's).
An older man and his very attractive daughter (?) were seated across the aisle from me. When they finished their dinner, the waiter brought them each a complimentary Red Delicious apple (with the bottom cut off to prevent it rolling off the plate) and a full pack of Benson & Hedges cigarettes. (For you young folks out there, Benson & Hedges was a premium brand at the time and airlines were handing out special complimentary packs of four, more pedestrian-brand cigarettes.)
As soon as the waiter put these complimentary apples and cigarettes on the table, the older man said, "Pardon me. I don't smoke cigarettes. Would you have a cigar?" The waiter instantly reached into an inside jacket pocket, produced a top-of-the-line Dutch Master cigar, and asked the gentleman if that would be satisfactory. It was. That's the kind of service expected on the Broadway and, I must add out of loyalty to the Central, on the Twentieth Century Limited (which I never rode)..
ChuckAllen, TX
What a wonderful story. Thank you for sharing your experience. My train first rides in the early fifty's are barely memorable as I was too young, so I really enjoy hearing about 'the way it was'.
Eating on the B&O diners was like having Sunday dinner at my Grandfathers home. Of course my Grandfather was the head of the B&O's dining cars and was a accomplished cook in his own right and many of the recipes used on the diners were from the family recipe book.
It's hard for me to pick favorite meals in diners since I eaten so many since the summer of 1951, when my youngest brother and I ate breakfast on the Pelican as we were on our way from New Orleans to Chattanooga.I do not remember the meal itself, but the fact that we ate in a DINER stuck with me.
One lunch that I ate while going from Bristol to Chattanooga, in 1958, is memorable in that the waiter provided a finger bowl (albeit with a paper bowl rather than a glass one) after I had eaten.
The dinner that I ate after leaving Portland on the City of Portland in April of 1971 is memorable more for my dining partner, whom I had met earlier that evening (we were introduced by a freight train that we overtook and passed). From time to time since, she speaks of what she ate that evening--and I do not remember at all what I ate.
The meals on the Canadian are memorable in their good flavor, the courtesy of the waiters, and the setting of the tables (but no finger bowls).
I do not recall a bad meal during the time I ate in diners before Amtrak; there has been an incident or two since which can be best forgotten. The best meal in an Amtrak diner was the dinner we ate out of Chicago on our way to Albuquerque in 1973; the steward was of the old school, and catered to our desires and needs (we had to sit at two tables since three small children were not well fitted to sit with two adults at one table), even offering to take a picture of the family. My wife and I both had the trout special (one of her favorite dishes) I have since wished I had asked steward about eating under the dome in the lounge car. This steward knew what must be done, what must not be done, and what could be done.
Once, when going from Chattanooga to Bristol on the Tennessean, I ordered a bare minimum breakfast (finances prevailed), and the waiter brought me toast as well as what I had ordered.
Johnny
Highly interesting reminiscences.
To me there is something especial about eating on a train (not to be confused with a take out or a beforehand packed meal).
As a young man (18 years old) serving in the Royal Air Force I traveled to my home reasonably often at one time as my base was only 100 miles or so distant. I traveled on a long distance train which had started in northern England at was heading to the South West of England where I live.
I used to enjoy afternoon tea on this train, which at the time was steam hauled. The curious part of this journey was after the tea was announced after leaving the town of Taunton the train had a very stiff climb to a tunnel (known as Whiteball Tunnel). It was reaches, it seemed at almost walking pace
Once through the tunnel it was a different matter as the train now hurtled down the grade on the other side on its way to Exeter making for an exhilarating part of the journey.
For the record those who know Exeter and Taunton as American place names, these, of course are the originals.
Alan, Oliver & North Fork Railroad
https://www.buckfast.org.uk/
If you don't know where you are going, any road will take you there. Lewis Carroll English author & recreational mathematician (1832 - 1898)
Stan, I have many memories like that, including steak on the Broadway, pearch on the 20th Century, breakfast between Salt Lake City and LA the one time I ate in a UP dome diner (City of LA), the Kings dinner on the Panama Limited,. and on and on. The memory closest to yours was documented by Doug Riddel's printing a letter of mine (in Rail News) about a train adventure NY - North Carolina at age 12 duirng WWII. and my having essentially a private train as the second section of the Havana Special northbound Wilson, NC - Washington or New York . The train was supposed to pick up a Marine Detachment at Wilson, which did not show up. ACL Pacific, four or five high-density PRR P-70 coaches, and a gleaming freshly shopped purple rebuilt semi-streamlined heavywieght diner, well stocked with food for the detachment that didn't show. The steward was John Masters. He insisted on my having second and third helpings of a delicious Southern Fried Chicken dinner, and my three table companions were the conductor and the two trainmen. Later on in life, when assigned to Fort Bragg, I used to try to time my ACL train trips with his dining car duty, and the friendship kept on while I did acoustical consulting in Richmond, Raleigh, Florence, Jacksonville, Orlando, Lakelanld, Miami, and Maitland. using rail transportation whenever possible. A similar event was my sitting across from Tom Long, Passenger VP of the D&RGW on the CZ's 1970 replacement train that became the Rio Grande Zephyr after 01.05.71 Amtrak's startup. He had his driver and company car in Salt Lake City drive me the short distance to the UP station to make the connection for LA (and the dome diner and freshly shopped 10-6 with wood veneir paneling int the roomette). On my return journey, I stopped to say hello at his office in Denver, and he introduced me to Leonard J. Bernstein. One itneresting fact that Leonard would probably not mind too much my reciting is that both his dad and that of the famous composer-conductor-pianist-educator were named Sam Bernstein. And even with wonderful expereinces in Sante Fe, UP, IC, KCS, Southern, ACL, Seaboard, B&O, C&O, NP, and CB&Q diners, my altogether best memories are of Rocky Mountain Trout dinners on the D&RGW. Wonderful crew, scenery, and food. hard to beat.
Today: Anyone really interested in organizing a New York City based dinner train, please contact me at www.daveklepper@yahoo, and I will put you in touch with the person who would like to make it happe d . But you must have restaurant experience, and possibly may have to make some investment.
My role is stricktly facilitator of the connection.
As I ate breakfast on New Years Day my thoughts drifted back 70 years to my first experience in a railroad dining car. My Aunt and I had boarded an open section Pullman the night before in Tampa enroute to Gary, IN on the Southland. The next morning we headed to the diner while the train highballed up the Central of Georgia between Macon and Atlanta. Upon entering the car we were greeted by the Steward who escorted us to a table with a sparkling white table cloth and napkins that was set with a vase of fresh cut flowers and heavy silverware stamped with CofG on each handle. A tall, smiling black waiter handed my aunt a pencil and the order blank on which she wrote our orders. While waiting for our food I remember watching out the window to catch a glimpse of the big 4-8-2 heading our train as it rounded every curve. I was impressed with the way the waiters kept their balance on the curves while holding high their trays of food. My breakfast consisted of fresh squeezed orange juice, country ham with red-eye gravy, eggs,a side dish of grits and corn muffins served in their cast iron baking dish shaped like a small ear of corn. My Aunt had a small silver pot of coffee and after finishing her second cup the Steward reappeared to total our bill and collect her money. Maybe it was because it was on board a train, but that breakfast was the best I've ever eaten before or since.
How many of you have memories like these that you'd care to share with us?
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