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Fantastic 4-8-4 Locomotives - Special Edition

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Fantastic 4-8-4 Locomotives - Special Edition
Posted by Redwards on Friday, November 18, 2011 6:17 AM

This one just arrived and from a brief overview it looks like it's going to live up to it's title.  Nice work, CT.

--Reed

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, November 19, 2011 4:15 AM

Redwards

This one just arrived and from a brief overview it looks like it's going to live up to it's title.  Nice work, CT.

--Reed

Reed,

Is this issue considered Special Issue No. 10.  ?

If you look on the cover, it should indicate that somewhere.

Thanks for your help.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by Redwards on Saturday, November 19, 2011 5:46 AM

Rich,

Yes, it's marked as Special Edition No. 10. 

--Reed

 

 

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, November 19, 2011 5:47 AM

Reed, thanks.

I have the first nine, so why stop now?

Rich

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Posted by Redwards on Sunday, November 20, 2011 6:20 AM

A supplement to the Neil Carson article in this issue is available online with graphs of calculated drawbar horsepower curves for various 4-8-4's.

--Reed

Edit - I can't seem to get the link to work properly but the materials can be found by clicking on Railroad Reference \ Steam Locomotive.

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted by richhotrain on Sunday, November 20, 2011 6:47 AM

Redwards

A supplement to the Neil Carson article in this issue is available online with graphs of calculated drawbar horsepower curves for various 4-8-4's.

--Reed

Edit - I can't seem to get the link to work properly but the materials can be found by clicking on Railroad Reference \ Steam Locomotive.

 

http://ctr.trains.com/en/Railroad%20Reference/Steam%20Locomotives/2011/11/Calculated%20drawbar%20horsepower%20curves%20for%204-8-4s.aspx

Alton Junction

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Posted by selector on Sunday, November 20, 2011 10:10 AM

The more I read about the AT&SF, the more I like 'em.   Their engines, for the most part, were the, if not among the, most powerful and capable in their classes for the super-steam locomotives out there.

Crandell

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Posted by richhotrain on Monday, November 21, 2011 5:35 AM

selector

The more I read about the AT&SF, the more I like 'em.   Their engines, for the most part, were the, if not among the, most powerful and capable in their classes for the super-steam locomotives out there.

Crandell

Crandell, I couldn't agree more.  The BLI 4-8-4 is a great representation of the Northern, and it is made in the ATSF road name with several different road numbers.  If you can find one, it is worth adding to your stable of steamers.

Rich

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Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, November 22, 2011 4:50 AM

I went to our local bookstore yesterday and picked up this Special Issue No. 10.

It is well worth its purchase price.

If you haven't already received a copy in the mail, and if you like steam engines, do yourself a favor and buy this special issue.

As the editors noted, this is the first time that the publication has devoted the entire issue to a specific type of locomotive - - the 4-8-4.

Rich

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Posted by GP40-2 on Tuesday, November 29, 2011 11:00 PM

After reading this Special Edition, I'd give it a C plus at best.

There were some nice pictures, but most looked like they were raided from the Trains archive. Mechanical information was ho-hum and incomplete. For instance, combustion chamber length and flue length was given, but by themselves are meaningless for performance evaluations. No breakdown of total direct heating surface area (firebox + combustion chamber + thermic siphons + arch tubes) per locomotive, which by far is the most important aspect of steam production. Also, it was not stated which locomotives fire tube design was the more modern high flow 4" tube vs. the older restrictive 3.5" tube. A locomotive with 4" tubes will have a higher burn rate per unit of time for a given grate size, which can drastically increase heat (and steam) output.

The online Horsepower Curves must be taken with a grain of salt. Actually, a very large grain of salt. The old Baldwin formula was an empirically derived equation full of various fudge factors in an attempt to describe what was being observed. Now, empirical equations are not a bad approximation as long as what is being modeled doesn't deviate in design from the original model. As one can see, various 4-8-4 boiler designs were all over the place within the same builder, not to mention the differences among different builders. This renders the Baldwin derived calculated horsepower charts an interesting exercise in 8th Grade Mathematics, but pretty much useless to compare actual performance of the various 4-8-4s to each other.

Sorry for being such a tough grader, but I got to call it as I see it.

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Posted by selector on Tuesday, November 29, 2011 11:06 PM

GP40-2, would you please point us to a source that non-engineer fans would be able to struggle with and still manage to come away substantially enlightened, not so grealy the poorer financially for it, and that is quite definitive and accurate?  IOW, is there a readable 'bible' of sorts that isn't stuffed with arcana and calculus that would talk in plane language about steam locomotive design, testing, and improving?

Crandell

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, November 30, 2011 6:01 AM

GP40-2

After reading this Special Edition, I'd give it a C plus at best.

Sorry for being such a tough grader, but I got to call it as I see it.

Well, ratings are highly subjective in any event, but if you compare this Special Edition to the previous nine special editions, it deserves at least a B, if not an outright A.

If you like the 4-8-4, this is a must have publication, and it is very well organized.

As far as recycled photos go, what can you expect now that more than 50 years have passed since the 4-8-4 left the scene?    How many unpublished photos of the 4-8-4 can there be out there?

Rich

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Posted by feltonhill on Wednesday, November 30, 2011 9:58 AM

Crandell,

I'm not GP40-2, but I'd recommend Karen Parker's book, "How A Steam Locomotive Works."  It covers the subject at several levels and the more technical stuff is usually in sidebars.  It's available from several sources including C&OHS.

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Posted by selector on Wednesday, November 30, 2011 10:50 PM

Thank-you, Sir.  I'll take a look.

Crandell

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Posted by jeffhergert on Thursday, December 29, 2011 4:42 PM

My local magazine outlet (non-hobby shop) finally put them out on the shelf.  I've just looked thru it and like what I've seen.  It may not be the greatest from a mechancial engineering perspective, but then it is put out for fans, not mechanical engineers.  (Just like Trains Magazines is more for fans while Railway Age is more for those in the business.)

One minor error, that most won't care about.  The RI's WW2 era order for 20 engines (10 oil in1944, 10 coal in 1946) were designated road class R67, not R67B as the 1929/1930 orders were.  The B refers to a booster engine that the last engines did not have.  Towards the end of the R67B engine's service life some of them lost their boosters, but retained the original designation.

It mentions the later orders for R67B engines during the early depression, despite the limited territory available at that time.  One possible reason put forward in other articles and books was that the chairman of ALCO also sat on the RI's board of directors.  His presence may have influenced the extra engines. 

The coal burning R67 engines delivered in 1946 were said to be the last new steam power delivered to a railroad west of the Mississippi River.  Ordered in late 1944/early 1945 while the war was still going on and expected to go into 1946.  Had it been known the war was closer to ending, those last 10 may not have been ordered.

Jeff 

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