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Reicing Refers

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Reicing Refers
Posted by R.N. Nelson on Saturday, August 27, 2011 7:54 PM

Has anyone run across any information as to how long one icing would last in a refer, either by miles or time?

 

 

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Posted by K4sPRR on Monday, August 29, 2011 4:23 PM

Generally when a steel refer would travel west to east re-icing was done once every 24 hours or at a distance of 400 miles.   Amount of ice needed would be in accordance with variables as to product, weather, etc.    Trainorders.com has a nice commentary on their history.

 

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Posted by henry6 on Monday, August 29, 2011 6:01 PM

And as a side note, in extremely cold weather those same ice bunkers would hold kerosene heaters which emitted noxiously dangerous gases.

 

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Posted by R.N. Nelson on Monday, August 29, 2011 6:38 PM

Thanks so much for the information and the link

Norman

 

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Posted by kenfath on Friday, May 17, 2013 12:09 AM

Wasn't aware of kerosene heaters.  Most used methanol.  They had replaced charcoal heaters of early years.

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Posted by Firelock76 on Saturday, May 18, 2013 11:40 AM

I have to ask, why the heaters, kerosene or otherwise?  Does it depend on the cargo being shipped? 

I understand the use of rock salt, it's analagous to the use of rock salt in an old-fashioned  home ice-cream maker, but heaters have me stumped.

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Posted by henry6 on Saturday, May 18, 2013 12:13 PM

Before mechanical reefers the cars were just lined cars, basically.  Bunkers in the corners were filled with ice from roof hatches to keep car and contents cool.  However, in extreme cold weather the insulated or lined cars would retain or reflect outside temperatures so in stead of cooling, they needed to be warmed at least to prevent freezing.  Thus the heaters placed in the bunkers.  However, these heaters emmited mono- and di- oxides which caused those opening or going into the bunker to retrieve heater, to often pass out and sometimes die.

RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.

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Posted by Firelock76 on Saturday, May 18, 2013 2:02 PM

Thanks Henry!  Looks like reefers were deceptively simple, if not downright dangerous at times.

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Posted by efftenxrfe on Saturday, May 18, 2013 9:27 PM

How often reefers were iced was specified by the shippers, at least that's what happened when I was an extra board relief Agent/Tlgr/Clk on the Coast Div in 1966-7. Mechanical reefers were new tech. Oceano, 'tween SLO and Santa Maria, loaded a dozen or so "icer" reefers a day, broccoli, celerey, picked-up by the Smokey, the SMV train which respotted mtys and took the loads to Guadalupe for icing. 

Instructions for icing were part of the shipping contract; top-icing, bunker icing, salting, locations for reicing, places where the car could be consigned to alternate markets (where the commodity was selling at higher price) all were on the contract signed by the agent with the shipper.

My recollections, beside the panic of a fumble-fingered typist, low-experienced station agent trying to get the switch lists, waybills and train orders ready for the Smokey, were that most of the re-icing was scheduled for Kansas City, St. Louis and New Orleans. initial icing was at Guadal(loop) and the Perishable Block trains went to the Rock Island at Tucumcari.

Anybody out there know about the substance, operation and value of the vacuum chambers into which reefers were conditioned for movement from Salinas in the early '60's? Trailers, vehicular, also were put in these giant shiny shoe-box chambers.

From Salinas and the San Joaquin  Valleys perishable blocks at the lenghth of the Roseville icing dock went east....each car with icing instructions.....

Let's explore perishable's shipping. 


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Posted by efftenxrfe on Sunday, May 19, 2013 6:14 PM

How often reefers were iced was specified by the shippers, at least that's what happened when I was an extra board relief Agent/Tlgr/Clk on the Coast Div in 1966-7. Mechanical reefers were new tech. Oceano, 'tween SLO and Santa Maria, loaded a dozen or so "icer" reefers a day, broccoli, celerey, picked-up by the Smokey, the SMV train which respotted mtys and took the loads to Guadalupe for icing. 

Instructions for icing were part of the shipping contract; top-icing, bunker icing, salting, locations for reicing, places where the car could be consigned to alternate markets (where the commodity was selling at higher price) all were on the contract signed by the agent with the shipper.

My recollections, beside the panic of a fumble-fingered typist, low-experienced station agent trying to get the switch lists, waybills and train orders ready for the Smokey, were that most of the re-icing was scheduled for Kansas City, St. Louis and New Orleans. initial icing was at Guadal(loop) and the Perishable Block trains went to the Rock Island at Tucumcari.

Anybody out there know about the substance, operation and value of the vacuum chambers into which reefers were conditioned for movement from Salinas in the early '60's? Trailers, vehicular, also were put in these giant shiny shoe-box chambers.

From Salinas and the San Joaquin  Valleys perishable blocks at the lenghth of the Roseville icing dock went east....each car with icing instructions.....

Let's explore perishable's shipping. 


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Posted by narig01 on Monday, May 20, 2013 5:55 AM

efftenxrfe

How often reefers were iced was specified by the shippers, at least that's what happened when I was an extra board relief Agent/Tlgr/Clk on the Coast Div in 1966-7. Mechanical reefers were new tech. Oceano, 'tween SLO and Santa Maria, loaded a dozen or so "icer" reefers a day, broccoli, celerey, picked-up by the Smokey, the SMV train which respotted mtys and took the loads to Guadalupe for icing. 

Instructions for icing were part of the shipping contract; top-icing, bunker icing, salting, locations for reicing, places where the car could be consigned to alternate markets (where the commodity was selling at higher price) all were on the contract signed by the agent with the shipper.


Let's explore perishable's shipping. 


Did you ever get top icing instructions for broccoli?  

Interesting sidenote some of the icing facilities still exist in Salinas.  They get used to ice down truck shipments of broccoli.  I was kind of suprised some years back to find that the icing facility for a load of broccoli I was pulling was originally set up for icing refrigerated railcars.

Thx IGN

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Posted by efftenxrfe on Monday, May 20, 2013 7:25 PM

IGN,

Short answer is yes.

Then, mid 60's, broccoli and celery were shipped in Oceano (oh/she/ann/oh) home-made wooden crates---museum pieces, thin wood strips, shaved shakes and nails and wire and could endure melting ice which would help sustain their high water content until marketed.

Lettuce was cardboard boxed....couldn't take the weight or melting  top  ice.

Icing facilities for railcars in Salinas.....what connects these: New York, Kansas City, Chicago, Portland, Boston and Tokyo?

Shippers also specified the use of ventilaters in those perishable Bills of Lading in the icer era, BTW.

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Posted by switch7frg on Tuesday, May 21, 2013 11:12 AM

Smile  Has any one ever had their windshield splattered by water dripping from an 18 wheeler hauling  "top iced" produce, there is two drain holes at the end of the trailer .  Later there was a propane heater to keep produce  from too much cold.

Y6bs evergreen in my mind

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Posted by wjstix on Friday, May 24, 2013 8:15 AM

One thing to keep in mind is that refrigerator cars were similar to the old-style home 'icebox'. They kept food cold, but couldn't keep things frozen. Produce shipped in iced reefers were fresh, so as noted in  very cold weather had to be heated so the produce wouldn't freeze and spoil. The cars were insulated, but it wasn't as good as could be done now. We're very used to having frozen food now, but that didn't become common until after WW2 as more homes converted from iceboxes to electric refrigerator/freezers, and technology allowed for refrigerator cars to handle frozen food, like frozen sides of beef.

Stix
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Posted by efftenxrfe on Friday, May 24, 2013 9:18 PM

Mechanicals---the cars with the  powered refrigeration machines which generated sub-freezing transit temperatures, combined with more efficient insulation sliced the jugular of the icer-reefer.

They opened transportation by trucks---18-wheelers that could find a trailer/ refrigerated/frozen commodity haul that during rate-regulation for railroads bled us.

After "Stagger' deregulation" what?

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Posted by Deggesty on Saturday, May 25, 2013 10:57 AM

The above post reminds me of something (probably non-germane to the thread) an OTR driver told me a few years ago. A driver who was fairly new picked up a load of frozen bread dough, set the temperature control to the proper point, neglected turning the unit on--and, somewhere in south Arizona, saw that the sides of the van were bulging. The decision as to how to dispose of the dough was to bury the van.

Johnny

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Posted by efftenxrfe on Sunday, May 26, 2013 7:38 PM

Also non-germane: our local freight spotted a "mechanical"  load of frozen beef at a cannery which made  Italian food and chili con carne late one August Friday on the west side of the Sacramento Valley on the Elmira to Winters branch.

Monday we had a hot car of GE appliances for Winters; rather than take the whole train there we set out the train except for the " Big Carload Sale starting Wed."  box carload at the cannery's industrial mini-park and as we're doing this the most god-awful stench wafted.....

The car had run out of fuel, the 'Valley sun and temps did their things, but bury the car...no....the meat, sides of beef, were being carried into the building via the normal access to the kitchens.

The olfactory memory kicks me when I go by the canned chili shelves in a 'market.  NEVER Ever will I get near any chili that might have been canned....I love chili....

I posted May 20 a list of city names and asked what associated them to the driver's comment that icer reefers  were iced in Salinas, she was told, where....

Anybody want or have the answer?

One More Ride; Way Out There,....Pioneers.


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Posted by wjstix on Thursday, June 27, 2013 10:01 AM

BTW heaters were usually external, not placed inside the cars. Some older style cars had a provision for a "smudge pot", a small fire burning heater that would be attached under the car and connected up so heat would go up into the car.

Stix

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