I've heard that increasing age is supposed to sharpen long-term memory. Apparently that has not yet kicked in regarding railroading. I grew up a block away from the main line of the New York Central (a double) that ran between Detroit and Chicago. It seems to me that the first diesel-electrics that ran on this line were F-7s (initially for passenger service and later for freight as well). Seems that the passenger units had their expected six wheel trucks and the freight haulers had four. Could they still ahve both been F-7s? Can anyone out there confirm or send me to the right source for such stuff?
Also, I recall lots of steam. And distinctly remember cinders raining down on me as I stood on a berm next to the tracks as freight consists were gaining speed leaving the Jackson, Michigan yards. I guess that made 'em coal burners. But what type(s) would they have been? This doubtless is the source of my deep fascination for steam. It has a rather somber side, though. Another memory, probably from the mid-50s, is watching trains roll by with unpowered, piston-less (perhaps also without tie rods) locomotives that were coupled among the freight cars, enroute west for the smelters in Gary, Indiana or the scap heaps of Chicago. I could hear them coming before they came into view around the gentle bend and woods to the east - they clanked and clunked like nothing before or since! Don't know if they had their tenders in tow behind them or not. Seems that they must have - why go to the time and money of replacing a drawbar with two couplers for iron on its way to the bone yard.
I also recall long lines of flat cars loaded with tanks and Army trucks churned out by the Chrysler, GM and Ford plants in Detroit and being shipped to the West Coast for the Korean War. And one other item that I have never seen since either in pictures or modeled - specialized flat cars with a full table of transversely mounted silver cylinders down their entire length. If memory serves, these cylinders were about 2 feet in diameter and had concave ends. I was told that they contained chlorine. But who knows?
My, how things have changed!
John B
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Attuvian It seems to me that the first diesel-electrics that ran on this line were F-7s (initially for passenger service and later for freight as well). Seems that the passenger units had their expected six wheel trucks and the freight haulers had four. Could they still ahve both been F-7s? Can anyone out there confirm or send me to the right source for such stuff?
It seems to me that the first diesel-electrics that ran on this line were F-7s (initially for passenger service and later for freight as well). Seems that the passenger units had their expected six wheel trucks and the freight haulers had four. Could they still ahve both been F-7s? Can anyone out there confirm or send me to the right source for such stuff?
What you saw on passenger trains was most likely New York Central E-7s, which they first bought in 1945. General Motors' E-units had two six-wheel trucks, F-units had two four-wheel trucks. E-units were designed for high speed passenger service; the middle axle on each truck was unpowered and was there primarily to add stability and a smoother ride at speed. F-units were often used on passenger trains, particularly in areas with steep grades, but more often were used on freight. Except for the E units being longer, their general shape was very similar to the F-units. NYC did have a fair number of steam-generator equipped F units that hauled passenger trains also.
As far as steam, NYC had steam until 1957-58 as I recall. Their primary freight engine was the 2-8-2 Mikado for general freights, and 4-8-2 "Mohawks" for mainline and fast freights. 4-6-4 Hudsons and 4-8-4 Niagaras (both originally built for passenger train service) could sometimes be seen on freight trains in the fifties. 0-8-0 switchers were very common on the Central.
Re moving "dead" steam, usually the engine and tender would be together, unless the railroad had some other use for the tender and kept it. (Some railroads converted old tenders to water-only auxilliary tenders, to run behind the regular tender and provide extra water for example.) Normally the siderods would be removed and put up on top of the tender deck while the engine was being hauled to the scrapper.
I saw and road the Michigan Central during this period, and remember only E-7's as diesels on the passenger jobs, and mostly F-7's on the few diesel frieghts. Mikados (2-8-2's) were usual on freights, with some Mohwaks (4-8-2) and a very rare Niagra (4-8-4). Passenger steam did occur, mostly Hudson's (4-6-4) or Pacifics (4-6-2) or Mowhawks (4-8-2). I do not remember seeing a Niagra on a passenger train on the Michigan Central, although they were on the main line east of Buffalo and on the line through Toledo. What did suprise me was a sight of one ot the ex-Boston and Albany 2-8-4 Brikshires on the Michigan Central after the B&A was dieselized in 1951. I think I may have seen one of the J-2 600-series Hudsons also. displaced from the B&A, on a passenger train. I am not sure the Central even had any FP-7's or boiler equpped F units of any type. Did it? It had Alco road-switcher with boilers, but I don't remember seeing them on the MC.
NYC did not have any FP units, but did have quite a few F units with steam generators. F-units had a pretty large area in the B units for water and a steam generator, but very little room in the A units. The FPs were designed to allow more room for water, either to create more steam heat where needed (like on Canadian railroads) or to allow one unit to run a short passenger train without having to have a B-unit just so it wouldn't run out of water / steam. New York Central primarily used E-units on passenger trains, but it wasn't unusual to see F units on passenger trains.
American Locomotive Co. (ALCO) was in Schenectady, NY and so was well known to the NYC, who had quite a few Alco diesels including RS units, PA passenger engines etc.
BTW NYC had a number of 4-6-2 engines designed primarily as freight engines, a bit unusual.
I should have mentioned in my first post, the New York Central Railroad Historical Society is a great place to get more info.
Stix,
Thanks for your replies. Very informative. I'll check out the NYC Historical Society site and see what they have regarding the Michigan Central division. I'll also locate some pics and see if I can recall the configurations that were most common. As a kid I wasn't much into those particular distinctions back then so I'll likely need some historical help.
Funny the odd things that one remembers - like the best tuna salad sandwich I ever had: served by a porter walking down the aisle of a coach carrying a steel basket full of stuff on a Twilight Limited run between Jackson and Kalamazoo.
Attuvian And one other item that I have never seen since either in pictures or modeled - specialized flat cars with a full table of transversely mounted silver cylinders down their entire length. If memory serves, these cylinders were about 2 feet in diameter and had concave ends. I was told that they contained chlorine. But who knows? My, how things have changed! John B
Here is a picture of a model of a chlorine tank car:
and here is a screen shot of an article about the use of these cars:
Today chlorine is usually carried in tank cars of conventional design.
I have to say, doing a search for pictures of chlorine cars seems to turn up a lot of pictures of swimsuit models...
Dan
AltonFan I have to say, doing a search for pictures of chlorine cars seems to turn up a lot of pictures of swimsuit models...
Sounds like I need to do some more research when the wife is (I hope) otherwise occupied.
"But wait...no honey, I really was searching for "chlorine railroad cars" and this is what turned up!!"
Wow...don't you love Google search? I was looking up specific tank car photos one night for a certain chemical company and ....BINGO....I sure got everyth ing BUT tank cars.
The first GM frieght cab road diesels were actually F2's. Not many roads bought these versions of the F unit, but NYC had them (as did the ACL).
Did the 4-6-2s on freight service have the smaller drivers?
I confess I almost Googled on chlorine cars to investigate the connection with swimsuit models! What a kick. What's the souce of the model? Do you think it's a scratch-built or something produced commercially (tho likely some time ago). I wonder if their distribution was nation-wide.
You might find this site informative. Warning....its real easy to spend some time here....mike
http://www.youtube.com/user/PoathArchives#p/u/23/euuEDbXHaBE
Mikec6201,
Great movies, thank you for sharing.
Ralph
Wow, Mike, what a site! Thanks a heap!
What a tremendous photo you've got their for yourself! Grandson? I'll bet you pop your buttons all the time. . .
Possibly the main area of use of the Central's F3 and F7 B-units with boilers was north of North White Plainsi on the Chatham-Pittsfield service?
Attuvian,
Are you referring to my avatar?If, so, yes. and thank you.
You're correct, I do pop my buttons.I couldn't resist having the little shaver, as my avatar.
My Wife and I couldn't wait to get the outfit to Him.Ralph
Attuvian Did the 4-6-2s on freight service have the smaller drivers?
They came with 69" drivers, for use primarily in fast freights. Some later were fitted with 72" drivers. The Bowser website has some good info and pics, they used to make a kit for an HO scale NYC K-11 Pacific.
FlyingCrow The first GM frieght cab road diesels were actually F2's. Not many roads bought these versions of the F unit, but NYC had them (as did the ACL).
The first GM frieght cab road diesel was the famous FT which was produced from November, 1939 through the conclusion of WWII (actually November, 1945).
Mike
NYC had four A-B sets of FT's prior to the F2's.
Attuvian I confess I almost Googled on chlorine cars to investigate the connection with swimsuit models! What a kick. What's the souce of the model? Do you think it's a scratch-built or something produced commercially (tho likely some time ago). I wonder if their distribution was nation-wide.
The car illustrated in my previous post is an HO brass model from MTS Imports. I got the picture from a dealer who is selling them. I do recall seeing similar cars in the distant past. There was even an article in MR on how to scratchbuild a similar car back before the 1970s.
Dan,
That's a great link, thank you.
They have beautiful and well detailed items.
MJChittick FlyingCrow: The first GM frieght cab road diesels were actually F2's. Not many roads bought these versions of the F unit, but NYC had them (as did the ACL). The first GM frieght cab road diesel was the famous FT which was produced from November, 1939 through the conclusion of WWII (actually November, 1945).
FlyingCrow: The first GM frieght cab road diesels were actually F2's. Not many roads bought these versions of the F unit, but NYC had them (as did the ACL).
Yeah, I know that , Mike, but I meant NYC GM units...however, I see that they did have FT's. My ooops
What a surprise is is to have found this thread/site!! I grew up in Kalamazoo and, as a 10-year old kid, I can vividly remember Xmas vacation 1950. The GI's were stranded on the Frozen Chosen and Hung Nam. Their 4x4's were slipping and sliding sideways on the ice. General Motors(?) started producing half-tracks which were loaded onto flat cars which were hauled by 4 tandem NYC steam locomotives from Detroit westward until they were either "handed-off" to the Union Pacific in Iowa or (given their power) continued westward over the the Continental Divide to the Port of San Francisco.
I, and another friend, were so surprised when this train suddenly appeared around the bend near WMU football stadium. The noise, the smoke, the chugging, etc.! If I only had my dad's 8mm camera! I wouldn't doubt that a lot of the guys who built these half-tracks were, themselves, WWII Vets who then felt the urgency of getting these half-tracks loaded up and shipped out. That same night we were out with our BB guns shooting out as many Xmas lights as we could! LOL! No?
Can any of you relate to this? Wish you all well and make your grand kids sit on your laps and listen to your many "train" stories. Jim Campbell, jimhcampbell@msn.com
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