Omission Of Poling Pockets...

[Train-O]

Hi,

Can someone please answer my questions?

Did some North American Railcar Manufactures omit putting poling pockets on freight cars before the middle 1960's and if so, which ones?

Thank you,

Ralph

[rrboomer]

A railcar manufacturer could not take it on themselves to delete polling pockets,  that decision would have to come from either/or the ICC or AAR. 

From actual observation, the last time I saw a crew  pole a car was about 1958.  By around 1964 the pole had pretty well vanished  from the railroad scene.  The pole was mostly seen on switching/wayfreight locomotives, most often hanging from underside of frame, supported by two "J" hooks (along with the train-chain and a pair of rerailing frogs hanging from  other "J" hooks).  For the pole:

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/nkp/nkp235ads.jpg

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/co/co5202s.jpg

 A lot of caboose(s) assigned to local freight service had them hanging outside also.

Polling was a dangerous undertaking (that word used on purpose).  The pole was prone to break due to most often having a slight bending stress on it when in use.  To position it for use one or two employees would have to hold to pole to line up with the pockets while standing in the foul of a moving locomotive and a stationary piece of rolling stock while praying you had an engineer that knew how to move six inches instead of six feet when attempting to set the pole.  The personal injury lawyers may well have had a major influence on the demise of the pole. 

Another point to ponder: around 1900 the weight of one loaded rail car was somewhere around 50 tons,  by 1960 the weight was up to 130 tons.  The 1900 pole was probably cut from a lot harder wood than the 1950's pole.

Dick

 

 

[Train-O]

Dick,

I thank you for quickly responding and giving me a lot of valuable information.

I did not know of the dangers involved in the 'Undertaking' of 'Poling'.

Believe me, I'm not making light of a dangerous task.

I know what it is to have to perform unpleasant tasks and put up with inconsiderate bosses, in order to earn a wage.

Merry Christmas and a Happy And Healthy New Year,

Ralph 

 

[rji2]

I last saw a pole used in 1947 or '48 on the Tennessee Central.  The crew on local freight No. 60 attempted to drop a car behind the engine into the house track in Crossville, Tennessee, and the car didn't pass the clearance point when it stopped.  The crew took a pole off the engine's tender and shoved the car back out onto the main.  They recoupled the engine and tried the drop again, with more speed, and the second try was successful.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Poling a car in order to reattempt a drop?  Sounds like a trainmaster's nightmare.

[wjstix]

I'm not sure if the practice of poling, or whether or not cars/engines had poling pockets, was ever regulated by the government?? It may be at some point in say the sixties the practice was outlawed, but before that (if it did happen) poling pockets were a standard thing on freight cars for many years. Generally it was up to each railroad to decide if they wanted to allow poling or prohibit their employees from doing it (which didn't necessarily stop it from being done). I guess a railroad that prohibited poling might order boxcars without poling pockets when they bought new cars - I don't think they were required by regulation to have them??

[Train-O]

Everyone,

Thank you for your input.

Ralph

[henry6]

I remember seeing it done in the late 50's, maybe 60 or 61 by the crew of the DL&W Dover Drill when working the east siding and the box factory in Denville, NJ  As I remember, I was told to get well out of the way to watch!  It is fun to spy the pole hangning from the under side of a caboose or from the catwalk on a diesel switcher when viewing pictures...you can tell the kind of service the caboose or engine was in..

[Train-O]

To all,

Poling must have been something to see, but for all concerned, at least there is no more harm from that type of task.

Ralph

[lonewoof]

There was a story in the old NMRA Bulletin, 20 or so years ago, concerning a switch crew which attempted a 'flying switch'  at a facing-point spur. They didn't have enough speed when they made the drop, and the dropped car rolled into the middle of the switch and stopped. The only way the crew could think of, to get out of their fix, was to 'pole' the car back out onto the main.

Either they didn't have a proper pole, or it wouldn't reach to the poling pockets on their loco, so they tried to set the pole against the loco steps. They were finally successful, but managed to mangle the steps in the process.

We were left wondering how they explained the damage to their loco.

 

/Lone

 

[Train-O]

Lone,

Thank you for that info.
That poling must have been something terrible to life, limb and property?!!!!!

Ralph 

[Kootenay Central]

Various views regarding poling pockets and regarding life and limb.

In this photo from Shorpy c. 1900, the two Erie reefers on the right have poling pockets ( and Fox trucks ) but other cars visible do not.

http://www.shorpy.com/node/9577?size=_original

Note the varied array of placement for grab irons and car stirrups.

Some cars have operating levers that can be used from either side.

These new reefers in 1904 do not have poling pockets.

http://www.shorpy.com/node/8252?size=_original

This box from the 1890s does have poling pockets, but does not have a trainline, yet.

http://www.shorpy.com/node/6892?size=_original

This switcher from 1900 has poling pockets on it's tender.

http://www.shorpy.com/node/6855?size=_original

Box 1908.

http://www.shorpy.com/node/4395?size=_original

This switcher too has poling pockets on it's tender.

http://www.shorpy.com/node/7837?size=_original

Statements may be taken and discipline may be awarded?

Thank You.

 

[Train-O]

Kootenay,

Thank you for clearing up many discrepancies and for supplying proof.

Evidently, as you and others on this forum have pointed out that, ' Poling-Pockets' were at the discretion of the railroad ownership and not any governing and ruling agencies.

Thank you,

Healthy and Happy New Year,

Ralph.