alco century c-636 locomotive

[alcosforever]

read a while ago alco had built c-636 alcos for prr  pennsy, the first two were outside shop in pennsy green with keystones ready for delivery when penn central merger was approved, they were then moved back into alcos paint shop and painted penn central black with pc worms, has anyone got pictures,photos of these in prr green before they were repainted, did alco have company photos of these C-636  in pennsy green, please do not confuse with c-630 i know the difference as i have these by weaver in o gauge also worked on them and ran them in engine terminal for conrail when i worked for them in locomotive dept.

[jrbernier]

  That is an interesting story.  Maybe it's true, but here is the information I have gathered in the last 15 minutes over the Internet:

• The PC merger took place on Feb 1, 1968
• PC 6330-6344 were built in March/April of 1968.  The numbers follow the C630's
• The 'last' documented new PRR locomotive delivery was SD45 6207 in January 1968.

  Considering that the C636 order was delivered in the March/April time frame, I sort of doubt they were in PRR markings - But stranger things have happened.

Jim

[daveklepper]

Someone may have forgotton to inform ALCO or within the ALCO establishment, and an old paint order was followed, even though the merger had took place.

 

Indiana Raiilroad (the preWWII interurban, not the current freight regional) had two No. 51's, on a high speed interurban car that lasted until the end of service in January 1941, and single-truck Birney streetcar in Anderson local streetcar service.  The paint shop got an order to "Paint 51"  and they painted the Birney, which went to scrap about three months later. as the Anderson local system was already being converted to bus operation, some four years before the last of the interurban lines.

[alcosforever]

i think i read it on interent on alco century  listings but i did read it someplace several months ago, i looked at dead line stuff and stored centuries i thought i saw one in pc paint that was applied over another color. but i will tell you this i didnt fabricate the story i read it as i read anything i can get on alco centuries i have some of the instrucion manuals both from conrail employment and what i picked up at train meets, the c424,c630 and c628 all ran thru here and at conrails detroit diesel terminal but i never got to see or ride a c636.i hope some O  gauge company produces it . anyway jrberier thank you for your reply if you come across anything on this c636 i would be interested. ps i took many trouble calls to freight trains running detroit to monroe and sometimes rode them to toledo ohio had many engrs tell me when a emd had failed in the locomotive consist when they had a alco century it would pull the whole train i have seen this happen sometimes they were down to a crawl but kept going the older engrs were very skilled at their profession

[alcosforever]

thanks for the repley, its to bad so many of these alco employes have past on you would think trains, or others would do interviews with some of them like the one film company did in canada with still living steam locomotive engrs, so much is lost when this does not happen. your story on the paint job was great , troops obey orders and thats that, seen it many times on the railroad and in employment in other industries. we use to get a good laugh out of railfans who would tells us a certin engine was a gp7 or gp9 the shop people would repair these with parts of other engines white line,wrecks,available parts whatever . we had a ge unit with alco trucks on it the back shop put on and of course ones the builders put on from trade ins. im still hoping some alco person can find out if what i read was fact but maybe jrberier is right never happened. to all of you who wrote in or will be thank you . ALCO LIVES

[AgentKid]

I couldn't sleep so I though I would catch up on the forums and came up with a related question to the question above. ALCO built C630's, C636's, etc., but also M630's and M636's. What does the C and M designate? A question that has occurred to me off and on for many years.

Bruce

 

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

The C stood for Century, which was the line of locomotives introduced by Alco in 1963 or 1964 and built in both Schenectady and Montreal.  The M stood for Montreal, and was the line introduced by MLW in about 1969, when the Schenectady plant ceased manufacturing new locomotives.

[M636C]

I don't think there were any C-636s painted in PRR green. The official colour photo was taken of 6337 which is definitely black. It had the same yellow handrails as the PRR units, however. This sort of rumour often occurs at merger time. One locomotive ordered by Frisco (possibly a GP38-2) did appear in the orange and white after the BN merger but this was intentional...

If the locomotive was repainted in the factory, it is unlikely that the finish would weather to show the earlier scheme as would happen with field repaints. I expect the weathered locomotive would have been a C-630.

 No C-636s were built in Montreal and the C-630s built there were a modified design called a C-630M which had an MLW design of truck intended particularly for CN who were concerned about the effect of heavy units with long wheelbase three axle trucks on their track which had been inherited from a number of small predeccessor roads.

The MLW truck had a short wheelbase and carried the locomotive frame on rubber pads. this showed up very well in CN tests and became standard on Montreal's six axle M series both domestic and export units. Current GE ES44 units use a truck based on the MLW design but with a longer wheelbase.

There were 29 additional C-636s built in Australia which aren't usually counted but which nearly doubled the US production. One US built locomotive, ex SP&S/BN worked in Australia in its original condition and two others ex PC were used heavily rebuilt but still with their Alco engine.

There were 27 M-636s built for Mt Newman that were fitted with the Alco Hi-Ad truck rather than the MLW design which was locally known as the "Dofasco" from Dominion Foundry and Steel Company who cast the first two frames used in Australia. We called these M-636C for the Century series trucks (and that is my screen name),

The C-636s were sometimes criticised, particularly on the IC, for rough riding on bolted track because the springs were influenced by the regular impacts with the rail joints. On Mt Newman on long welded heavy rail their ride was amazingly smooth and they needed  less maintenance than the MLW trucks which depended on friction dampers that needed adjustment or replacement.

M-636C 

 

[AgentKid]

CSSHEGEWISCH

The C stood for Century, which was the line of locomotives introduced by Alco in 1963 or 1964 and built in both Schenectady and Montreal.  The M stood for Montreal, and was the line introduced by MLW in about 1969, when the Schenectady plant ceased manufacturing new locomotives.

 

Thanks Paul. I had guessed correctly about the C and M, but did not realize there was a time component. I knew there were C units built at Montreal and never could figure out how that fit in. M's only came out after the US plant closed.

I spent time Sunday night looking at my favourite CPR diesel site, and it now made much more sense to me. Your guess that the M series started in 1969 seems to be correct. Thanks again.

Bruce

 

[scottychaos]

I wouldnt say MLW "introduced the line" in 1969..there was no new line of locomotives that came out.

rather, MLW simply switched to the "M" designation in 1969, after Alco Schenectady shut down, but there was no actual change in the product line at that moment..only a change in the model designations..

Later MLW went on to produce some variants Alco Schenectady never had, but thats only because locomotive evolution continued after 1969.

Scot

[M636C]

scottychaos

I wouldnt say MLW "introduced the line" in 1969..there was no new line of locomotives that came out.

rather, MLW simply switched to the "M" designation in 1969, after Alco Schenectady shut down, but there was no actual change in the product line at that moment..only a change in the model designations..

Later MLW went on to produce some variants Alco Schenectady never had, but thats only because locomotive evolution continued after 1969.

Scot

No, it is true that MLW introduced a new line of locomotives in 1969

In November 1969, MLW introduced the M-630 and M-636.

There were many more differences between the M-636 and C-636 than there were between (say) a U30C and a C30-7. About the only things that were the same were the actual cab and the Alco engine and the section of hood over the engine.

The frame was a slightly different design and very slightly longer, the trucks were a different design and not interchangeable. The radiator was one third larger. There was no separate intercooler radiator. The dynamic brakes were of greater capacity and arranged and cooled differently. And so on through most details.

The truck design was an MLW design, and although it had been used on Canadian built C-630Ms it was never made in the USA and never used on Schenectady built locomotives.

The M-636s built in Australia had an even bigger radiator than the Canadian built M-636 and this made them the most successful locomotive to that date in the hot conditions in the iron ore areas. This was also introduced in 1969. MLW realised that more design input was required to survive in the locomotive market.

When the first GE C36-7s arrived ten years later everyone looked at them and thought "these guys have never built a locomotive for hot weather operation, have they!" GE learned fast but they had to re-learn things MLW had found out years earlier. But those C36-7s were never as reliable as the MLWs.

M636C