Hello - I'm new here (and new to model RRing in general). I have some questions regarding the PRR Broadway Limited train perhaps you all could help me with:
1. In what year did the T1 take over for the K4s in pulling the Limited?
2. In what years was the T1 the primary hauler of the Broadway Limited?
3. What year was the T1 replaced in pulling the Limited, and what locomotive took over, EMD E7?
4. Does anyone know the date (or at least the year) of the last known run of a T1? And was it a passenger or mail train?
5. I'd like to display a T1 pulling the Broadway in HO; what passenger cars would be appropriate for that era and what manufacturer(s) make them? Is there anyplace I could get a sample consist for that time frame?
6. Last one, sorry.... How did the Manhattan Limited differ from the Broadway Limited?
Much thanks in advance
1. In 1942 the first 2 T1 prototypes were bulit. I´m not sure if they saw service on the BL, but it could have happened. But they never really replaced the K4´s off the BL, since they were used for other trains as well.
2. In 1945 and1946 all the other T1 were delivered and started their working life. They were, like I said before, never the primary hauler of the BL, but the years where chances were the biggest to see them pulling the BL were the years 1946 to 1949. In 1949 the BL was re-equipped with new cars and diselized, so steam was used on the BL only ocasionally, in case of diesel power shortage. But in such a case, a K4 would pull the the BL rather than a T1 because of the much better reliability of the K4.
3. They were "replaced" in 1949, when E7´s took over on the BL.
4. I´m not sure, I remember reading it was somewhere in 1951 or 1952, but I can´t confirm that, sorry.
5. I think you should buy the T1 model done by BLI. It´s a very nice looking model, and steam and sound makes it really great. As for the cars I don´t know. I think that prototypical streamliner cars of the 1938-1948 BL only exist in brass, so if you are a rich person and can afford brass, you should search for it at the Coach Yard, Hallmark, Overland, Challenger or Key. Especially Coach Yard, Overland and Challenger are known for producing very beautiful complete brass train sets, but they are very very very expensive. But if you want to put your T1 in front of the 1949 BL (which might have been rarely the case like I mentioned above (and only for the time 1949-1951), then you should buy the the complete BL set by Walthers, which is due 2011. You can visit www.walthers.com to see drawings of the brand new BL cars. I think that a BLI T1 in combination with Walthers BL streamliner cars would look very beautiful, and if you like the train and the loco, then I would buy it, even if such a combination was only a rare ocasion.
6. I don´t know anything about the Manhattan Limited, maybe someone else can answer that. But I think that the Manhattan Limited was not an all-sleeper-train like the BL.
I hope some of my answers could satisfy you.
Regards
Daniel
De Luxe6. I don´t know anything about the Manhattan Limited, maybe someone else can answer that. But I think that the Manhattan Limited was not an all-sleeper-train like the BL.
Johnny
DeggestyDe Luxe6. I don´t know anything about the Manhattan Limited, maybe someone else can answer that. But I think that the Manhattan Limited was not an all-sleeper-train like the BL. Daniel, you're right. The Manhattan Limited was a coach and Pullman train. The General was the only other PRR all-first class train between New York and Chicago.
Daniel, you're right. The Manhattan Limited was a coach and Pullman train. The General was the only other PRR all-first class train between New York and Chicago.
The Manhattan Limited was an all-Pullman train from its establishment in 1903 until it received coaches in 1932. It also had an extra fare like the Broadway Limited, but it didn't have the cachet that the Broadway had (and that was not a bad thing - a lot of travelers that rode Pullmans in the 1910's and 20's were not interested in paying an extra fare for the additional services that trains like the Broadway offered). After 1932, the Manhattan Limited became sort of a "second-tier" train after coaches were added and the extra fare was dropped.
As for the General being the only other all-first class train on PRR's New York-Chicago route, that must be qualified with a time frame, in this case the mid 1930's. From the 1890's through 1932 there were a number of Chicago-New York PRR all-Pullman trains that were operated concurrently with the Broadway and ran when the Broadway did not exist:
- from the 1890's until 1902, when the Pennsylvania Limited was the premier train,
- from 1902 to 1912 when the Broadway was called the Pennsylvania Special and,
- during WWI when the Broadway was discontinued by the USRA because of traffic volume in Pittsburgh - this was interesting because on the surface it seemed logical to sacrifice the Broadway temporarily to free up capacity on PRR's line through Pittsburgh for the war effort. But the 20th Century Limited was still allowed to operate - some thought at the time that the reason why the Broadway was stopped but the Century was allowed to continue was because, during this time when the federal government operated the nations railroads by way of the United States Railroad Administration, a number of top managers from the northeast region were from the New York Central.
In 1932 the Broadway became the only all-Pullman PRR Chicago-New York train until the General was established in 1937.
I realized after my last post that I should have been more specific in the time frame; I was thinking of the fifties on. Even in 1930, there were several all-first class trains between New York and Chicago.
While the Manhattan Limited ran for a time during the T-1 era, it usually had a whole load of misscellanoue head-end equipment, and many of the coaches were rebuilt P-70's in their various arrangements from little to total rebuilding.
Thanks everyone, that is some excellent information. That should do it for the Manhattan, but if anyone has any other tidbits on the T1 with the Broadway, that would be fantastic.
I went back to Don Ball's book (Pennsylvania Railroad: 1940's - 1950's), and on page 185 I found a photo of the 20th Century Limited and Broadway Limited racing eastbound toward the Calumet river outside Englewood. The photo was taken from between the tracks, and no locomotives are visable, only the cars. The caption reads: "New York Central's first E7 diesels from LaGrange head the Century, a T1 opens up with the Broadway, ready to show the diesels a thing or two."
No dates are provided in the photo. So if this is correct, T1's pulled the Broadway at the time when the NYC had begun running diesels on the Century.
T-1's were often assigned to the Broadway. In fact, often if K4's were assigned, they were double headed. But by 1952, when I worked at LaGrange, diesels were the usual power.
Today I came across a video clip of the 1938 Broadway Limited from a British newsreel. Interesting shots of the train behind a GG1 and some interior shots too.
To find this video check out - www.britishpathe.com and type in "Broadway Limited" in their search field.
ZephyrOverland Today I came across a video clip of the 1938 Broadway Limited from a British newsreel. Interesting shots of the train behind a GG1 and some interior shots too. To find this video check out - www.britishpathe.com and type in "Broadway Limited" in their search field.
Hey good find. That's a nice little clip. Nice FOM cars.
I looked up the consist of the Broadway Limited as of June of 1964. The Broadway would carry two lounge cars which included 5 double bedrooms and a train telephone. The other lounge car would include 6 double bedrooms.Two sleepers which had 10 roomettes and 6 double bedrooms;Two sleepers which included 4 compartments, 2 drawing rooms and 4 double bedrooms, two sleepers with 12 duplex rooms and 4 double bedrooms,also one sleeper which had 11 double bedrooms and operated on odd numbered days in August November and December and even days in September and October. Eastbound train also carried a dining car from Chicago to New York. Also one sleeper was carried between Chicago and Washington and had 10 roomettes and 6 double bedrooms ( Train 28 ).
( Train 29) westbound, lounge cars same as eastbound, Three sleepers of 10 roomette 6 double bedrooms instead of two all others the same. Both trains carried a diner lounge between Harrisburg and Washington.
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