Trains.com

NYC\ 20th Century

6339 views
16 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    July 2009
  • From: North Tonawanda, NY
  • 111 posts
NYC\ 20th Century
Posted by Fox14120 on Tuesday, July 20, 2010 8:13 AM

 Once NYC moved the 20th Century away from steam in 1948 what models did they go through when they discontinued the 20th? Also what style passenger cars did they use from 1948 on? I know pre 48 it was Pullmans but did they continue and were they two tone grey or another color and were they simular with cars when NYC used E8's?

  • Member since
    June 2002
  • 20,096 posts
Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, July 20, 2010 8:54 AM

From steam to E7's to mixed E7's and E8's to almost always E8's but occasional E7's, especially B-units.   Never elephant style that I ever saw.   Always an A unit followed by one or two B units, or A-B-A with the rear A facing the train (this rarer).   Two tone grey continued with the complete re-quipping by Pullman in 1948.  The first silver equpment I saw on the train was when they rented two Budd Slumbercoaches (or Sleepercoaches).  This was after it became a combined coach and Pullman train, but for a while, all the coaches assigned were also two-tone grey, matching the sleepers.   Sometime after Pullman operation was replaced by the NYC's own crews and management for the sleepers, the mixture of Budd stainless steel and two-tone grey started appearing, and occasionally a Budd stainless obs appeared as well.   I believe all the stainless equpment the NYC ever owned was Budd.   The Pullman-built and ACF and home-made cars were two-tone grey or green (for suburban service only in latter years, New York and Boston).   That is what my memory tells me, others might correct me.

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Mpls/St.Paul
  • 13,892 posts
Posted by wjstix on Thursday, July 22, 2010 4:19 PM

The Central's first E7s arrived in 1945 and were used on the 20th Century and some other NYC trains. (Many railroads rotated diesel sets, so the engines that pulled a top passenger train during the day might be used to pull a mail train the opposite direction that night.)

As delivered they were A-B sets; all were decorated to match the 1938 streamlined Century cars (i.e. light gray cars with a dark gray band thru the windows) except one A-B set that was all black, but had the same white striping of the other units.

NYC reversed the gray scheme to dark gray cars with a light gray band thru the windows in about 1948 or so, so I believe any later passenger diesels would be in that later two-tone scheme.  I would guess by 1950-51 all the E's would have been repainted into the later scheme. Not sure how long it took to repaint all the passenger cars but I bet it was done pretty quickly.

Stix
  • Member since
    June 2002
  • 20,096 posts
Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, July 25, 2010 1:30 PM

The repainting of 1948 was simultaneous with the Century's re-equipping with new 1948 equipment replacing the 1938 equipment, which was then used on other trains.   The Budd-built New England States replaced the heavyweight train at the same time, and a number of other trains were equpped with lighrwieght equpment, including the Detroit Limited, and the Ohio State.  I remember the Wolverine as having mixed heavyweight and lightweight equpiment in the 1948-1952 span of years. 

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 2,535 posts
Posted by KCSfan on Wednesday, July 28, 2010 3:06 PM

daveklepper

The repainting of 1948 was simultaneous with the Century's re-equipping with new 1948 equipment replacing the 1938 equipment, which was then used on other trains.   The Budd-built New England States replaced the heavyweight train at the same time, and a number of other trains were equpped with lighrwieght equpment, including the Detroit Limited, and the Ohio State.  I remember the Wolverine as having mixed heavyweight and lightweight equpiment in the 1948-1952 span of years. 

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 2,535 posts
Posted by KCSfan on Wednesday, July 28, 2010 3:13 PM

The last time I rode the 20th Century was in 1963 or possibly 1964. By that time it was no longer all sleepers but also carried coaches and slumber coaches. IIRC the consist was all lightweights and was a mix of stainles and grey painted cars.

Mark

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Mpls/St.Paul
  • 13,892 posts
Posted by wjstix on Wednesday, July 28, 2010 4:04 PM

Eventually in the last years (1960's) the Century did start to carry some coaches as I recall. Starting a few years earlier it started carrying some Slumbercoaches.

E units were standard power on it til the end, though I'm sure you could find pics of F units on it at times, and maybe other engines pinch-hitting.

Stix
  • Member since
    March 2016
  • From: Burbank IL (near Clearing)
  • 13,540 posts
Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Thursday, July 29, 2010 10:16 AM

The "20th Century" had coaches added to its consist in 1958 when it was combined with the "Pacemaker".

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
  • Member since
    June 2002
  • 20,096 posts
Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, July 29, 2010 2:30 PM

The Slumbercoaches or sleepercoaches were added after the coachers were added and not before.  While the train was all First Class it was just that, and Slumbercoaches were caoch fare plus an occupancy charge, without a first class ticket requirement.  Howwever, the first coaches added were the overnight flat sided grey cars (probably originally built for the Pacemaker) and not stainless steel equpment, which was introduced by the Slumbercoaches.

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: At the Crossroads of the West
  • 11,013 posts
Posted by Deggesty on Thursday, July 29, 2010 9:40 PM

daveklepper

The Slumbercoaches or sleepercoaches were added after the coachers were added and not before.  While the train was all First Class it was just that, and Slumbercoaches were caoch fare plus an occupancy charge, without a first class ticket requirement.  Howwever, the first coaches added were the overnight flat sided grey cars (probably originally built for the Pacemaker) and not stainless steel equpment, which was introduced by the Slumbercoaches.

When David P. Morgan wrote an article about the Siesta Coaches (later generally known as "Slumbercoaches"), he commented that the accomodation was not first class. Indeed (from my experience), they were not--the rooms were not as commodious as roomettes or bedrooms (much less compartments or drawing rooms), and the seats were not as wide as those found in roomettes or bedrooms. There was no real mattress, only a pad (it would have been difficult to fold a mattress as the pads were folded).  I never slept in an upper Slumbercoach berth, but it may have been more comfortable than a lower. Yet, it was possible to undress and lie down, and there were the toilet and basin rightin the room.

Johnny

  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: Southwest US
  • 12,914 posts
Posted by tomikawaTT on Friday, July 30, 2010 7:04 AM

When the newly re-equipped Century was on display in GCT in 1948, I walked the length of the rather dark and dingy platform - and noticed that the rearmost diesel unit was a cab unit facing backward.  That stuck in my 10-year-old mind because it broke the symmetry of the long grey worm.

Chuck

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: FEC MP334
  • 961 posts
Posted by ZephyrOverland on Friday, July 30, 2010 9:01 AM

CSSHEGEWISCH

The "20th Century" had coaches added to its consist in 1958 when it was combined with the "Pacemaker".

 

Actually, the Commodore Vanderbilt (which already had coaches by this time) was combined with the Century in 1958, not the Pacemaker.

  • Member since
    June 2002
  • 20,096 posts
Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, August 1, 2010 7:09 AM

That is correct.   The flat side grey and grey long-distance coaches were bult for the Pacemaker, but it had been discontinued before the Century got coaches.

 

Rode slumbercoaches and sleepercoaches many times.   Not as comfortable as a roomette, but better than an overnight coach seat, even better than the best of the long-distance coach trains like the El Cap/   Of course any USA Army (or other service) veteran has had lots of experience in sleeping in far more uncomfortable situations, and compared to some of them, any decent overnight train accomodation is luxury.

  • Member since
    March 2009
  • From: Osoyoos BC
  • 84 posts
Posted by bigduke76 on Thursday, August 5, 2010 1:34 AM

 i sure do miss the slumbercoaches; used to ride 'em whenever i could.  my only memory of the 20th century dates back to 1943(!) when at age 11 i rode it NYC to Chi, all by myself.  i was so naive that i was disappointed in the engine; viewing it from a roomette window i mistook it for a diesel, it was so streamlined and smoke-free!  -big duke

  • Member since
    June 2002
  • 20,096 posts
Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, August 5, 2010 8:47 AM

Many of the J3a's lost their streamlining during WWII. so it is interesting that you rode behind one that still kept it! 

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: FEC MP334
  • 961 posts
Posted by ZephyrOverland on Saturday, August 7, 2010 9:26 AM

 

ZephyrOverland

CSSHEGEWISCH

The "20th Century" had coaches added to its consist in 1958 when it was combined with the "Pacemaker".

 

Actually, the Commodore Vanderbilt (which already had coaches by this time) was combined with the Century in 1958, not the Pacemaker.

Here is some additional information about the adding of coaches on the 20th Century Limited - On 4/27/58 the 20th Century Limited was combined with the Commodore Vanderbilt and by default, the Century got the Commodore Vanderbilt's coaches.  On 10/25/59 the Century-Commodore (as contemporary NYC advertisements were calling the combined service) received Sleepercoaches and the coaches were taken out.  The Century-Commodore was the only NYC exclusive Sleeper and Sleepercoach train running at the the time.  This did not last long - coaches returned on 4/24/60 and the Commodore Vanderbilt name was dropped at the 10/20/60 timetable change. 

  • Member since
    June 2002
  • 20,096 posts
Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, August 8, 2010 3:13 AM

And the sleepercoaches, not the coaches, were the first stainless equipment regularly on the train, except, and this is important, an occasional appearance by a transcontinental Santa Fe stainless-clad sleeper when that service was offered on the Century.   I don't think the SF sleeper was Budd, but a stainless-clad Pullman-built sleeper.

SUBSCRIBER & MEMBER LOGIN

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

FREE NEWSLETTER SIGNUP

Get the Classic Trains twice-monthly newsletter