MidlandMike Firelock76 Pretty much. When we were there in 1992 the portion of the Trans-Canada from St. Johns to Placentia was unpaved. Smooth and easy to ride on, but dirt surfaced just the same. When we came back five years later in 1997 it had been paved. What it was like in the rest of "The Rock" I don't know, we didn't tour any further than the Avalon Penninsula. I don't remember any unpaved sections in 1982. Placentia is off the TCH. I noticed on my Rand-McNally that the section from St John's to the Placentia turn-off is now an expressway.
Firelock76 Pretty much. When we were there in 1992 the portion of the Trans-Canada from St. Johns to Placentia was unpaved. Smooth and easy to ride on, but dirt surfaced just the same. When we came back five years later in 1997 it had been paved. What it was like in the rest of "The Rock" I don't know, we didn't tour any further than the Avalon Penninsula.
Pretty much. When we were there in 1992 the portion of the Trans-Canada from St. Johns to Placentia was unpaved. Smooth and easy to ride on, but dirt surfaced just the same. When we came back five years later in 1997 it had been paved. What it was like in the rest of "The Rock" I don't know, we didn't tour any further than the Avalon Penninsula.
I don't remember any unpaved sections in 1982. Placentia is off the TCH. I noticed on my Rand-McNally that the section from St John's to the Placentia turn-off is now an expressway.
OK, my memory might be shaky on this one. It was probably the section after you turned off the TCH to get to Placentia. I sure know it was a dirt road all right, at least in 1992. In 1997, hard-surface. Hardly matters at any rate, it's there, the railroad's gone. But not forgotten!
Firelock76Pretty much. When we were there in 1992 the portion of the Trans-Canada from St. Johns to Placentia was unpaved. Smooth and easy to ride on, but dirt surfaced just the same.
Oh, my lord. We took a family vacation to Newfoundland in 1968, in a two-year-old Lincoln Continental, going across on the ferry to Sydney and then up the west coast from Corner Brook to L'Anse aux Meadows (which was still holes in the ground at that early time). We had Goodyear Double Eagle tires (those tire-within-a tire things, if I recall correctly) so there were no flats -- but when we got down to Corner Brook again, you couldn't tell the color of the car. Took more than 20 minutes to wash it, too. Gave me some insight into American driving in the era before the Good Roads movement gained traction.
On the other hand, that was when much of the narrow gauge was still working, including Geeps with those funky outside frames. I remember paralleling a passenger train at night -- headlight beam out front and rows of cheerily lit windows, almost like an illustration out of a children's book. (I also remember some 'neighborhood kids' putting rocks on the track to hear the explosions when a locomotive ran over them). Hard to believe all that is gone.
MidlandMike Firelock76 DaveK and Miningman, I got this from my brother-in-law "Big B" who was darn-near a regular commuter to Newfoundland for a number of years and a big Newfoundland Railway fan, so take it for what it's worth. "B" told me that in the late 80's the Province of Newfoundland was presented with a choice from the Canadian government. They could keep a revitalized Newfoundland Railway or they could have the Trans-Canada Highway, they couldn't have both. As the railroad never made any money, except during World War Two, it was an easy but sad choice, the Railway had to go. ... The Trans Canada Highway was completed by 1971. I drove it across Newfoundland in 1982. I think the cross island "Bullet" was gone by then, but there was still some local and St Johns commuter service. I am guessing he might have been talking about upgrades to the TCH in the late 80's.
Firelock76 DaveK and Miningman, I got this from my brother-in-law "Big B" who was darn-near a regular commuter to Newfoundland for a number of years and a big Newfoundland Railway fan, so take it for what it's worth. "B" told me that in the late 80's the Province of Newfoundland was presented with a choice from the Canadian government. They could keep a revitalized Newfoundland Railway or they could have the Trans-Canada Highway, they couldn't have both. As the railroad never made any money, except during World War Two, it was an easy but sad choice, the Railway had to go. ...
DaveK and Miningman, I got this from my brother-in-law "Big B" who was darn-near a regular commuter to Newfoundland for a number of years and a big Newfoundland Railway fan, so take it for what it's worth.
"B" told me that in the late 80's the Province of Newfoundland was presented with a choice from the Canadian government. They could keep a revitalized Newfoundland Railway or they could have the Trans-Canada Highway, they couldn't have both. As the railroad never made any money, except during World War Two, it was an easy but sad choice, the Railway had to go.
...
The Trans Canada Highway was completed by 1971. I drove it across Newfoundland in 1982. I think the cross island "Bullet" was gone by then, but there was still some local and St Johns commuter service. I am guessing he might have been talking about upgrades to the TCH in the late 80's.
Firelock76 And Redwards, have you ever read Ludovic Kennedy's "Pursuit," the story of the hunt for and sinking of the Bismarck? Magnificent and melancholy. Mr. Kennedy was there on HMS Tartar as a young officer, but not there at the finish, Tartar having had to break off to refuel.
And Redwards, have you ever read Ludovic Kennedy's "Pursuit," the story of the hunt for and sinking of the Bismarck? Magnificent and melancholy. Mr. Kennedy was there on HMS Tartar as a young officer, but not there at the finish, Tartar having had to break off to refuel.
Yes sir, a fantastic book. I enjoyed reading about battleships almost as much as trains in my formative years.
--Reed
Courtesy of "Big B" I've got a fine collection of Newfoundland Railway books, probably the only such collection in Virginia. I'm also looking at a photo on the wall as we speak of the "Newfie Bullet" rolling through St. John's Bowring Park.
We've been to Newfoundland twice, last time was 1997. I picked up a Newfoundland Railway "Gone But Not Forgotten" sweatshirt which has (ahem) shrunk over the years.
Lady Firestorm's mother is a Newfoundland native, by the way. "The SENIOR British colony!" as she proudly put it! And as she once said "I am NOT a Canadian, I'm a NEWFOUNDLANDER!"
Ever hear the joke about how "fast" the "Newfie Bullet" ran? A woman on the train yelled to the conductor "Mr. Conductor! I'm going into labor!" "Missus, if you knew your time was comin' why'd you get on the train?"
"When I got on the train I wasn't pregnant!"
Thanks for the new round of observation car experiences. I believe George Pins former PRR 120 was featured in the episode of 'Great Railway Journeys of the World' titled 'Coast to Coast'. Ludovic Kennedy rode the car, attached to the Broadway Limited, from NYC to Harrisburg where it was detatched for a dinner with Mr. Pins and Rogers Whitaker. Mr. Kennedy seemed unmoved by the open platform experience, although he conceded it might have been due to poor roadbed conditions of that era (circa 1979 or '80).
Edit - 'Coast to Coast' part I can be found online here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrXp-AD6xMY
Now, not only does Neewfoundland not have any rail serice, but also PEI. When they built the causeway, stupid not to restore rail. Economic development would be helped greatly.
I have been to Nova Scotia a half dozen times. When I first went in 1979, the mainland was practically ringed by tracks, and the Cape Breton Island line was busy. So much has been lost, and I also hope they cane save the rest.
Thanks for the information....I was there in the summer of 2008. Still it seems short sighted to tear out rails these days anywhere because you just never know, things can turn on a dime. Once its gone its pretty much gone along with the past and the future. I live in the far north of Saskatchewan now since '08 and there is talk of the demise of the former CN line up to Churchill...the native folk may buy it as they did with the line to Lynn Lake. Interesting.
I guess since the Sydney steel mills and nearby coal mines shut down, there is not much traffic on Cape Breton Island. VIA ran a weekly tour train on the line in the early 2000s, but it only lasted a few years. I rode it in 2001.
Midland Mike- well geez, thats not good. This is short sighted in todays world.
The Truro-Sydney segment also lost passenger service, and the Bretton Island portion is even threatened with rail abandonment.
Thanks Dave- Thought perhaps it was mid to late fifties and some steam involved but not in '68.
CN sure gave passenger service a good go of it and tried to revitalize it all in the 60's. At least they tried and over a considerable time but in the end it was not to be. CP tried into the later 50's but soon gave up and never came close to CN, except for "The Canadian".
November 1968 The lounge car on the International was ex-Nickle Plate. Parlors between Toronto and Montreal were rebuilt modernized heavyweights with 6-wheel trucks.
Dave K.- What year was that trip? ...so I can get a sense of motive power and the train consists .
You can still ride all those trains, some with those names,except the narrow gauge Newfie Bullet because they stupidly tore up all the track in Newfoundland. You may have to get yourself across the border in Sarnia/Port Huron or Windsor/Detroit.
Yes, and you had the whole leingth of the train between you and the locomotive. I never found it a problem. Even the john-discharge is an over-rated problem, except that Maurie Kleibolt did encorage use of johns farther forward when the rear platform of Chief Illini was occupied.
One open platform experience I can mention now, was that on the Newfie Bullet both ways. The CN put an NG business car at the rear both ways for Maurie to use a room and the rest of us to use as a lounge car. A great way to learn the Newfondland scenery. We used the International Limited from Chicago, a regular day train between Toronto and Montreal, and the Ocean Limited to and from North Sidney.
And low and behold I was able to make a correction to a sound system I had designed at the St. Johs, Newfoundland, Performing Arts Center after attending a rehearsal.
I think the smoke and soot wouldn't be as bad as you might think. The car body shielded the smoke and soot blowing back over the train, so the soot would be going around you rather than on you. You'd probably get much dirtier sticking your head out a window of a moving train.
When I lived in New Jersey in the late 1970s there still was an open end observation car used on one of the commuter trains on the old CNJ. On one of my days off I rode into Newark in the late afternoon and rode the observation back home. There were three others on the platform, each was drining from a bottle in a plain brown bag. The trip was nice, but cold and dusty.
Those are some terrific experiences RME-you are a lucky fellow and nice to know there are some people yet who keep their eyes open and are aware of an experience and can appreciate that.
The high point of my rail experience was, in fact, riding the back platform of car 120 when George Pins owned it, having the chance to talk to Raymond Loewy on the trip when repainted 4935 had her debut. (There is actually a picture of me in Trains on that back platform!)
It was a marvelous place to be, but I confess I always felt a bit guilty at being in a place that someone else should have their 'turn' in. On the other hand, those were the years where you could open the top half of a Dutch door on clockers and other Corridor trains and take in the changing light, sounds, and smells of high-speed traffic in that part of the world, looking forward at what was coming. Strangely, in the many times I did this, I never had a trainman tell me to close the door or stay out of the vestibule.
The 'next best thing' to this was a kind of poor-man's observation: some of the Silverliners between New York and Trenton had little fold-down "seats", a bit like a wooden ironing board, in the vestibule for the 'motorman' to use, and even when the train was packed full with standees you could get to the extreme rear of the train ... and have a full set of windows to the sides and rear, together with a speedometer to show you how far over 100mph your local train would get. This vantage in a heavy thunderstorm was not to be missed, including watching lightning hit the cat a mile or so behind the train.
I never had the opportunity to ride in a private open end car, But I did get to ride one on the Napa Valley Wine Train a few years ago. Part of the time we were at the rear of the train and when we headed back, the engine was right behind the platform. A little diesel smoke didn't drive me inside.
We also had a train that ran for a few years out of St. Louis renovated Union Station. It was owned by Rail Cruise America and always pulled an observation car. I'd spend as much time as I could standing outside. But this train was sold to KCS and the equipment is now used on the business train.
Sometimes I've been in the last car on Amtrak and stand by the rear door and watch the landscape flying by.
I'm glad I had the opportunity to ride on some observation cars, even if they weren't private, the experience was the same just without the fancy amenities.
Thus recreating the experience I had on the Nomad in 1962. Only it was Vodka Collinses for me instead of Jack Daniels.
But even as a teenager I had the experience of open-platform rear-end riding, and possibly Chicago area fans were able to enjoy the pleasure even longer. IN 1945, after Bar Mitzvah, by parents decided (mostly Mom, I think, possibly with the influence of my two much-older sisters) that my social skills needed to include formal dancing. I didn't object too much since it involved more subway or elevated or streetcar riding. I would dutifully board a southbound BB Sixth Avenue local after leaving Columbia Grammer prep and get off at 42n and 6th and walk over to Madison to the Arthur Murray dance studio. I quickly learned that one very pleasant way home was to walk to just west of 5th Avenue on 42nd and wait for the inspector there to short-turn a Broadway-42nd Street huffliner (double-end home-built 1936-1937 Peter Witt lightweight car) and I could not only board and find a seat for the northbound run to 86th and Broadway, but even sit in the rear motorman's seat looking backwards, since the car reversal move had be accomplished as quicly as possible to avoid delay to other streetcars on the eastbound 42nd St trackm thus no time to fold the seat against the wall to the left of the contoller, and I could enjoy a streetcar solarium ride through the Broadway auto dealer neighborhood, Columbus Circle, etc. But sometimes I had to wait a long time before Dad and Mom returned from Dad's downtown medical office. So one day I walked over to Third Avenue, to put the time to good use doing some elevated fan-tripping. And low and behold on the upper level of the 42nd Street "hump station" (northbound and southbound platforms for the center express track over the respective northbound and southbound local tracks) coming into the station was the seven-car train of "gate cars", which I had thought were only in use in emergencies. I discovered one could board via the rear platform (unlocked to save time in boarding) and no one would disturb me in riding it all the way up to 204th Street and Webster Avenue, with the fast trip non-stop from 42nd to 106th, including the site and wiff of the Rupert brewery, banging across the specialwork to the 99th Street shops, upper level of the 2nd Avenue Harlem River drawerbridge, and another fast ride up the center track from 149th to Tremont Avenue. At 204th I had a choice. I could spend another nickle, by walking from that elevated station to the 205th and Brainbridge terminal Bronx station of the "D" (still the same to day) and get back to 86th and Central Park West at a reasonable time via subway, or go all the way to Gun Hill Road where there two possiblities for a no addtional fare elevated reverse in direction, ending up at Broadway and 86th Street, but possibly face parents' wrath for worrying them and returning late.
One day I really pushed my luck too far. I planned a day exploring Brooklyn streetcars, but then a return by riding a PCC on the McDonald-Vanderbilt or Smith-Coney Island Avenue line all the way from Coney Island to Park Row, City Hall in Manhattan. At the elevated station, I would pass up the composites and wait for one of the two regularly used gate-car trains. This went according to plan. But just north of Chathan Square the towerman must have seen me on the back platform, becuase at 42nd Street, a transit policeman came to the rear platform and commanded "Get inside kid!" Which I did.
Redwards Anybody here have a chance to ride the platform? Enjoyable or no? --Reed
Anybody here have a chance to ride the platform? Enjoyable or no?
July 24, 2010, the annual "Denver Post Cheyenne Frontier Days Special" ran with UPP 103 "Cheyenne," an open platform observation, bringing up the markers. Although some years the Union Pacific Railroad has used that car to entertain its own guests, it appears that this year it was open to the general public, but specifically to holders of first class tickets.
In mid July, just a couple of weeks ago, all three sections of the Silverton Mixed carried open-platform bar cars on the rear end. "Lucious Lucius" would have approved of the tariff restrictions placed on that equipment: the cars were off-limits to passengers under the age of 21. Inspecting track and watching the spectacular Colorado scenery roll by with a well-iced glass of Jack Daniels at hand was an unforgettable experience!
In 1942 (or maybe '43) I rode the Southland together with my aunt from Tampa to Gary, IN in an open section Pullman (she had the lower berth and I got the upper). Somewhere between Atlanta and Knoxville we rode in the observation car for several hours. After much pleading on my part she agreed to let me ride the open platform with her but only briefly because it was mid-winter and pretty chilly out there. I remember it being windy and we got an occasional waft of smoke but no soot or cinders as the double headed locomtives were many cars ahead of us. I would have liked to have ridden the open platform longer but it was too cold for her and since I was only 10 years old she insisted I return to the inside of the car with her.
Mark
I rode a couple of "private varnish" open platforms in the 1960s and found the experience quite enjoyable, although on the first trip I remember feeling some light mist. A fellow passenger urged me to keep my mouth closed as he said someone had just flushed a toilet in a car ahead. He was serious too! The best trip was on Bill Kratville's Cornhusker Club to Ogden, Utah, in 1969 for the Golden Spike Centennial, especially the long day west across Nebraska on the rear of UP No. 5. I can see the dangers though from dust, dirt, sudden stops, etc. After all, they would chase passengers inside from vestibules if the top of the Dutch door was open. I wonder in later years if they kept passengers off the open platform. I recall reading someone's experience riding the Wabash, which had the last open platforms in regular service, toward the end. The brakeman let him ride outside only at slow speeds.
i've only ridden one open-platform observation car in regular service, on the Rock Island from Des Moines to Chicago, and as i was only 13 yrs old Mom only let me out on the platform briefly. however i've ridden several more on fan trips, some steam-powered (oil burners, thank goodness). i hold the possibly unique experience of having ridden the entire Western Pacific mainline, Oakland Mole to Salt Lake City, on the open platform of an open platform observation car! (not all on one trip, and with rest-room breaks, and one train had three open platform obs', two running backward.) the "baddest" was on the Espee, where the excursion train wasn't turned, only the locomotive, and on the return leg from Sacramento to Oakland mole, 2-8-0 #2728 was coupled to the observation platform! it was a long heavyweight train and that 45 year old Consolidation really had to struggle to get up to 60 MPH after each station stop - but it did, with me on the platform facing forward right behind the tender! -big duke/arturo
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