FEC Key West Extension and Passenger Service to Havana

[RoyPBower]

I have always wondered wether the FEC put New York - Key West (adverstised as New York - Havana trains) sleepers on car ferries to Havana. In other words, could a passenger travel from New York to Havana and not leave his railroad car?

Thanks,

Roy 

 

[Deggesty]

RoyPBower

I have always wondered wether the FEC put New York - Key West (adverstised as New York - Havana trains) sleepers on car ferries to Havana. In other words, could a passenger travel from New York to Havana and not leave his railroad car?

Thanks,

Roy 

 

Roy, I have seen no evidence that this was ever done.

Johnny

[ZephyrOverland]

I second Johnny's answer.  There was never a Pullmans-on-ferries service from Key West to Havana.

When the Plant System existed, they also offered a NY-Havana service, but via Atlantic Coast Line/Plant System trains to Tampa and a ship connection between Tampa and Havana.  This existed in the 1890's.  

 

[passengerfan]

Many years ago I delivered a mainframe computer system from Burroughs Pasadena CA to USCGS Key West. Being a rail historian I was particularly interested in the Island hopping trip across the Florida Keys and remember at the time the Coast Guard Station had a rather extensive  photo collection of the ships that had plied the waters from Key West to Havana until the RR was destroyed by a Hurricane. In later years there was a Railroad Ferry system from Miami to Havana until relations between the US and Cuba soured. These ships carried freight cars only and I do not believe they even carried any passengers.

Al - in - Stockton 

[rji2]

 The June 1916 Official Guide shows Nos. 85 and 86, :"The Over-Sea Limited,"  and says it "handles passengers and mail between the United States and the Island of Cuba, connection being made at Key West daily, except Sunday and Wednesday, for Havana, and daily, except Sunday and Thursday, from Havana, for Key West, with ships of the P. & O. Steamship Comopany, operating between Key West and Havana with only eight daylight hours on the water; New York to Havana in fifty-six hours."

The consist, however, shows all equipment terminating and originating in Key West. So, in June 1916, at least, there was no railroad equipment going through to Havana.

[wanswheel]

"Flagler had envisaged building at Key West twelve piers...served by train-ferries for both freight and passenger traffic. His dreams were never realised, but a train-ferry berth was constructed and three freight-only ferries were put into service."

http://www.flarr.com/wifsc1.htm

http://books.google.com/books?id=dQ1-zOG_DqwC&pg=PA33#v=onepage&q=&f=true

http://www.shipscribe.com/usnaux/CM/CM11.html

[passengerfan]

Thanks wanswheel for the information on the ships. I believe these are some of the same or similar photos I saw at USCGS Key West when I was there so many years ago. I also believe there were a number of straight passenger carrying ships that plied the waters from Key West to Havana for passengers wishing to visit Cuba. My daughter and family who reside in Canada have made a couple of trips to Cuba in recent years and needless to say I am envious. Cuba is the one place I have yet to visit in the Caribbean and would love to see the remaining rail system.

Al - in - Stockton  

[wanswheel]

Peninsular & Occidental steamships

http://www.keywest2havana.com/501%20E%20Brochure.html

http://www.keywest2havana.com/

Castro on the Pennsylvania Railroad

http://pro.corbis.com/popup/Enlargement.aspx?mediauids={d4684522-c5af-4960-8e16-fec52635bb84}|{ffffffff-ffff-ffff-ffff-ffffffffffff}&qsPageNo=1&fdid=&Area=Search&TotalCount=18&CurrentPos=13&WinID={d4684522-c5af-4960-8e16-fec52635bb84}

[Deggesty]

wanswheel

Peninsular & Occidental steamships

http://www.keywest2havana.com/501%20E%20Brochure.html

http://www.keywest2havana.com/

Castro on the Pennsylvania Railroad

http://pro.corbis.com/popup/Enlargement.aspx?mediauids={d4684522-c5af-4960-8e16-fec52635bb84}|{ffffffff-ffff-ffff-ffff-ffffffffffff}&qsPageNo=1&fdid=&Area=Search&TotalCount=18&CurrentPos=13&WinID={d4684522-c5af-4960-8e16-fec52635bb84}

Mike, I like this sentence found in the P&O link:

"Passengers holding only one ticket and desiring exclusive use of a stateroom or boudoir room may be accommodated when all other passengers can be comfortably berthed without having to use the desired room, but if such reservation is to be absolute and to the exclusion of other passengers, then applicant will be required to pay in addition as many fares from port to port as there are additional accommodations in the desired room."

I wonder how many passengers were willing to share a room with anyone else who happened to be on board. This reminds me of the Pullman requirements for exclusive occuoancy of bedrooms, compartments, and drawing rooms, which were not quite as expensive.  I am away from home, so I can verify the exact requitements, but as I recall, it was something like 1 1/10 first class fare for a bedroom, 1 1/2 for a compartment, and two for a drawing room. If someone comes up with other, official numbers, please correct me.

Johnny

[Deggesty]

rji2

 The June 1916 Official Guide shows Nos. 85 and 86, :"The Over-Sea Limited,"  and says it "handles passengers and mail between the United States and the Island of Cuba, connection being made at Key West daily, except Sunday and Wednesday, for Havana, and daily, except Sunday and Thursday, from Havana, for Key West, with ships of the P. & O. Steamship Comopany, operating between Key West and Havana with only eight daylight hours on the water; New York to Havana in fifty-six hours."

The consist, however, shows all equipment terminating and originating in Key West. So, in June 1916, at least, there was no railroad equipment going through to Havana.

I am glad to see that at least one other contributor has a copy of the various reprinted Guides. I had begun to think that I was the only one. Now we have at lest two who can give us this official information from the old, old days

Johnny

[Deggesty]

Back home, now, and I have checked the various ticket requirements for occupying Pullman space in the Southeast.

Railroad transportation: To occupy a bedroom, only one adult fare was necessary for either berth or seat passage.            To occupy a compartment, 1-1/10 adult fares was necessary for berth passage, and 1-1/2 adult fares was necessary for seat passage.      To occupy a drawing room, the minimum ticket requirements were 1-1/4 and 2.        To occupy a bedroom suite, the minimum ticket requirements were 2 and 2.       To occupy a master room, the minimum ticket requirements were 2-1/2 (a master room slept 2) and 5.

Pullman transportation: there was a fixed charge for each type for berth occupancy, regardless of how many occupants. However, for seat passage, 2 space charges were levied for a single or double bedroom, 3 were levied for a compartment or drawing room, 4 were levied for a bedroom suite, and 6 were levied for a master room (if there were that many people in a master room, some would have to sit on the floor).

Children, ages 5-12, rode on half-fare tickets, which, when required, would be counted as full fare when determining how much was to be charged for Pullman space occupancy. Also, there was quite an appendix concerning sole occupancy of a section (both lower and upper berth).

As I recall, the Eastern roads had a different schedule, and the Western roads another schedule. I do not remember looking at the New England roads' schedule.

Johnny