Deggesty wjstixBTW technically I think two blasts on the horn or whistle means "releasing brakes", indicating the train is about to move forward. (Three means backing up.) Two shorts from the engineer was the response to any signal that was not otherwise provided for. Three shorts was specified as the response to three shorts from a trainman (when standing, the signal was to back; when running, the signal was to stop at the next passenger station). Johnny
wjstixBTW technically I think two blasts on the horn or whistle means "releasing brakes", indicating the train is about to move forward. (Three means backing up.)
Two shorts from the engineer was the response to any signal that was not otherwise provided for. Three shorts was specified as the response to three shorts from a trainman (when standing, the signal was to back; when running, the signal was to stop at the next passenger station).
Johnny
In effect you are both right. Two blasts from the locomotive horn or whistle indicates the train is going to move forward but is also a response to a signal not otherwise provided for in the sense that it acknowleges and understands the signal as recieved. Three shorts from the locomotive indicates it will move in reverse. On passenger trains, the tain line or communication line signal system indicates two to instruct the engineer to go forward when stoppped or stop when moving. Three on the signal cord means stop at next station when moving or to back up when stopped.
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BTW technically I think two blasts on the horn or whistle means "releasing brakes", indicating the train is about to move forward. (Three means backing up.)
I was interested to read this, because my grandfather was a conductor on Frisco. I never knew him, he died long before I was born, but Mom used to tell lots of stories about her father and his days on the train. I'm always on board before it's time to pull out, so I've never heard anyone say it, but I do know when you hear two short toots, it's the engineer acknowledging the conductor's signal and time to go. And the train starts to move. Mom said her dad used to act like he didn't know them when he came into the car and he'd ask her mom in a gruff voice "tickets". Then he'd send the "butch" over with soda for them. They used to go often to a small town near St. James, MO where her mom grew up to visit the family, so Mom rode the train a lot as a kid. When her dad died, her mom had to present his pass when the casket was loaded aboard the train for St. James. She said there was an old song in those days "in the baggage car ahead" about a casket being carried. Mom said the whole train car was filled with people going to her dad's funeral, mostly RR men. Her 4 uncles were also Frisco employees. Not much revenue on the train that day.
"All Aboard" or often just simply "Boooard" was and still is the signal conductors and other trainmen gave to passengers standing on the station platform telling them the train was about to depart and they needed to get on it right now or they'd be left behind. It was not to be confused as a signal to the engineer which in the days before radio was communicated by hand or lantern signals or by two pulls on the trainline communicating cord. Of course today the conductor signals the engineer to start the train by radio often saying something like, "Amtrak 22 good to go Marshall".
Mark
On the CN, we use the term all aboard to let the engineer know all crewmembers are on and he's ok to pick up speed(at CN we still get on and off moving equipment). On the Whistler Mountaineer the train manager tells us "Everybody's on, all locked up. OK to go" when it's time to go. They don't yell all aboard on the platform either.
I have seen in the past, the conductor on the E&N Malahat RDC yell "All Aboard" as he locked up the station.
After I wrote my last post I got to thinking more about operations at large stations.The employee's that the Station Master at a large station supervised who were involved in the operating side of the railroad, were the operators. Before there were green signal's that could be set up by the dispatcher, there were originally cable operated semaphore's and later electric signal's, operated by the operator's on advice from the train dispatcher. The term operator was a shortening of Telegraph Operator, because all train orders were sent by telegraph before railroads switched to dedicated phone systems.
One thing I enjoy looking for in pictures of the largest and most famous station's right down to the smallest, is where was the operators office. Somewhere obvious, and sometimes hidden, you will see a bay window jutting out of a main wall somewhere, on either the track level or higher up if it was felt a view of several tracks was necessary. It is usually two window widths wide and sticking out from the wall one window width. This was were the operators desk was. He could advise the dispatcher of the situation on the platform, and this provided the dispatcher with information he needed to set up the rest of the line and send the order for the operator to give the signal for trains to leave.
These operator job's were considered to be no different than an operator's job at a one elevator town in the country or in a station/bunkhouse on the side of a mountain. There might be a small bump in pay, and since you got to live in a city it generally attracted men who were higher on the seniority list. But the interesting thing was, it didn't pay as much as a Station Agent's job any place, and both job types worked from the same seniority list. Back in the day, the union involved with this list was The Order of Railway Telegrapher's. Now the only remnant of this list are the train dispatcher's and what few operator/clerks there are still left. If you added together the base pay plus commissions on ticket sales, express fee's, and in Canada, commissions on telegram's, an Agent in a large town always made more than men on the list who worked as operators in cities.
Station Master's though made more than operator's or agent's.
AgentKid
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"O. S. Irricana"
. . . __ . ______
As has been noted, different railroads, different customs--as I have seen in my travels from 1951 on.
Now, if you are boarding an Amtrak train at a division point, you can expect the conductor who is beginning his run to take your ticket even before the train comes in, and he may issue you a check of some kind to show what your space is. I have seen this in such places as Greenwood, Mississippi, Grand Junction, Colorado, Salt Lake City, Utah, and, I think, Reno, Nevada. When boarding a southbound train in Washington, our transportation was not lifted until we were at trainside or on board.
What the conductor may say on the platform and what he says on the radio are not necessarily the same thing. It would depend on whether there were people still standing around on the platform saying goodbye or whatever, and once every non-employee is clear of the train then he uses his radio.
The only passenger trains I've been on since I owned a scanner both started in much the same way. The conductor says "All Aboard" if necessary on the platform, he does the final check like I described above, and then there is a two step process on the radio.
First, there is an order to release the brakes and pull out the slack and start the train rolling. I can't remember the words on the Rocky Mountaineer I rode from Calgary to Vancouver, but on the Alberta Prairie Railway at Stettler, AB it was "Let's give her a try". Once the train was rolling to his satisfaction and nothing was dragging or sticking, the conductor's on both trains then said, "(Engine Number) Highball". It is kind of the radio equivalent of the signal the conductor gave on the platform, and the last wave he gave the engineer before he stepped out of sight onto the train.
As for station announcements they were an outgrowth of what originally started on the platforms of the early railroads. I think the way they usually went was "Now boarding Train Number # on Track # to blah, blah, blah and points (West, East, North, or South)! All Aboard"
It is important to remember that what the Station Announcement or the Station Agent said was completely separate from what the conductor was saying and doing before the train left the station. My Father used to say that one job he didn't want was to be the Station Master at Calgary, because that job was completely removed from the actual railroad operation. Today, we would call it being the office manager of a marketing or service operation.
The train moves after the conductor and engineer see a green signal set up by the dispatcher, or on the branch line when the conductor decides he is ready, and then he does his final check.
I just now, as I type this, remember my Dad explaining this to my Aunt once, so it is a good topic for discussion.
Today with radio and such it may be the conductor no longer actually shouts "all aboard" before getting on the train...or at least it may not be required.
Generally station announcements would start "Now boarding, on track 6..." not with "All aboard" AFAIK.
But also I have heard station announcements start with "All aboard track such and such..." I do agree that it probably is said at different times on different roads. I have seen it used, like with the station announcement, to get people to get on and then later to the train crew indicating all were indeed aboard. I don't know off hand if there is a rule in the book or employee timetables of any road which would define and answer...I will look over the weekend to see, but I don't remember every seeing it.
AgentKid,
That was a good practice, not only to be certain and safe, in every way, but also they took their job very seriously and performed their job well and with pride.
They were professionals.
Ralph
All Aboard and All Ashore That Are Going Ashore are not the same, all though this is a common mis-conception. When the SS United States would set sail from pier 86 in New York City, its sailing time was 12:00 noon. On sailing day at 11:30 AM the announcement was made All Ashore That Are Going Ashore and all visitors to the ship must leave. It was tradition that visitors would come on board to see people off.At noon you would hear the United States whistle which could be heard all over the Big Apple that the big U was being pulled out into the Hudson by the Moran tugboats and began her voyage to Le Harve and Southhampton.
AgentKidAs this is going on the conductor makes one last visual check to see if everything is clear, and it is safe to proceed before giving the engineer the highball sign.
After I wrote that I had a memory of something I hadn't thought of in years. Irricana, AB was on the Langdon Sub., a branch line where things were done in a very relaxed manner. My Dad and the conductor on the mixed train might be discussing the latest political scandal out of Ottawa or Edmonton, or maybe the latest Canadian Wheat Board quota, or gossiping about a particular employee, but just before the train was ready to go a very interesting thing happened.
There were rarely any passengers to deal with, so just before they were ready to go there would be a sudden silence for about five seconds, the conductor would stand about three paces from the train and give a visual inspection of the train, then give the highball signal. He would be dead serious, just as though he was a conductor on "The Dominion" with 500 passengers, and even as a very young kid I learned that you didn't say a word during this time, and then the brakes would come off and away they would go.
It is kind of cool to think back and realize railroaders had been doing that last step for about a century and a quarter by that point, and it didn't matter where the train was they all started with that same process.
On some railroads, not all by any means, the Pullman conductor or porter in charge if there was only one sleeper and no Pullman conductor, would be the only one to inspect, possibly punch, or possibly tear off and "lift" (meaning take) the revenue portion of the ticket, and hand the appropriate part to the train conductor. Other railroads did involve both conductors contacting the passenger.
On some railroads, for example the eastbound Denver Zephyr and California Zephyr at Denver Union Station (at least at particular times) at the most important stations, and where feasible, tickets would be collected in the concourse, in designated areas, often with signs separating coach and sleeper passengers, with the train conductor and one trainman in one area and the Pullman conductor and one trainman in the second area, the tickets punched or lifted in those areas, a seat check given the coach passenger, and all passenger instructed on where to find their coaches or Pullmans on the Platform. This also frequently occured at Union Station, DC, Jacksonville, FL. At 30th Street, Penn Sta, and GCT NYC, I recall the same happening at entrance gates to the platform, at 30th St. and NYC Penn, this would be at the top of the escalator leading down to the platform, with the opposite gate manned by a guard to insure no bypass of the inspector at the top, plus a guard on the platform insuring no one entered the platform from the exist stairs. (I always had an excuse ready when I did just that, but I did not use it (except once when I felt I deserved a free ride since I was improving the sound sytem at Newark's Penn Station) to avoid buying a ticket. No separation of coach and sleeper passengers, and both the Pullman and train conductors at the side of the gate.
"All Aboard" was how the train conductor would to signal to everyone that the train was about to leave - kind of the RR equivalent of sailings' "All ashore that's going ashore".
The Pullman conductor would never say "all aboard". Passenger trains with Pullman sleepers had both a train conductor, an employee of the RR, and a Pullman conductor, an employee of Pullman. The train conductor ran the train, the Pullman conductor ran the sleeping cars. People in sleeping cars would usually need to present their tickets to both conductors when requested by them, to prove they paid for their ride on the train and that they paid for their sleeping car accommodations, which were "extra fare".
Different roads had different policies. I don't remember anything particularly about station announcements, but on the Southern, the conductor collected tickets at the side of the train at wayside stations; on the IC, the conductor walked through after each stop. There were also differences in how hat checks were marked; some used station numbers (usually related to the milepost; I have several IC hat checks marked "774"); others used station names (and I have some Southern ones marked "Chattanooga" or "Bristol"). You might wonder why there were different practices, but I doubt that any railroad employee could tell you why his road had its particular practice.
On trains I've been on in the past the conductors would announce the next station stop.
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It is at the end of the boarding process just before the train is ready to leave. It is basically a contraction of a question "Is everybody aboard" or "Are you all aboard".
It is said, and if nobody rushes forward then the conductor and trainmen lift up the footstools on the platform and put them aboard and then begin to close the stairs on the vestibules.. As this is going on the conductor makes one last visual check to see if everything is clear, and it is safe to proceed before giving the engineer the highball sign.
I suppose the other obvious saying conductors have is when they enter a coach after it leaves the station and they say "Tickets!"
When does the conductor on a passenger train say, "All aboard"? Is it at the beginning of the boarding process? or after the train is fully boarded?
Can you think of any other jargon of conductors in general or Pullman conductors specifically?
Thanks!
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