Also another thing I remember about the Franklin Av shuttle is the use of R-11 subway cars. The IND only had 8 of them. And that I think was why they ended up on Franklin Av. Close to Coney Island for repair, captive service.
Really had to look for pics:
http://tramway-null.blogspot.com/2012/08/r-6-and-r-11-class-cars-at-bay-parkway.html
Thx IGN
Also I was poking around the web and found this site:
http://forgotten-ny.com/2008/04/more-subway-secrets-ancient-ind-pillar-inscriptions-and-more/
Rgds IGN
henry6 From what I can see on sattellite view the line is single track with a passing siding and station half way between the ends with a center station platform so that both trains on the line meet there. And yes, the famous wreck was there, I think it was Mabone St. or something off like that. .
From what I can see on sattellite view the line is single track with a passing siding and station half way between the ends with a center station platform so that both trains on the line meet there. And yes, the famous wreck was there, I think it was Mabone St. or something off like that.
.
When I looked at the street view I now see that the station has been rebuilt. I would think sometime since the ADA was passed as the new station looks like it has an elevator. Also If you look at the street view of Franklyn at Fulton it appears their is a new retaining wall(in my terms) since I'd seen it last.
Times change I guess.
RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.
henry6 Yeah, that's about what I figured looking at photomaps vs MTA map. Franklin Ave, I am not sure of.; was told that it is a single track tunnel operation which makes it intriguing in it own right. As I said I've done the J train a couple times in the last few years plus the D train across the Manhatten Bridge and the A train from both Far Rockaway and Rockaway Beach Park, the Air Train from Jamaica to Howard Beach, and the LIRR. Up north, did the 7 and W trains. Some Coney Island I did as a kid, but doesn't count now. So have to pick up the rest and do the Bronx hopefully this summer or fall.
Yeah, that's about what I figured looking at photomaps vs MTA map. Franklin Ave, I am not sure of.; was told that it is a single track tunnel operation which makes it intriguing in it own right. As I said I've done the J train a couple times in the last few years plus the D train across the Manhatten Bridge and the A train from both Far Rockaway and Rockaway Beach Park, the Air Train from Jamaica to Howard Beach, and the LIRR. Up north, did the 7 and W trains. Some Coney Island I did as a kid, but doesn't count now. So have to pick up the rest and do the Bronx hopefully this summer or fall.
daveklepper Brooklyn els and embankments: F between Bergan and 4th Avenue on Smith and 9th Streets, West End D on New Utrecht and 86th St and PRW from about 5th Avenue and 39th Street to Coney Island, Sea Beach near Cony Island, rest of line depressed in cut, Culver F from south of Church Avenue to Coney Island, Q and B Brighton Avenue H to Coney Island, north of Avenue H depressed in cut, Frankllin shuttle. most of the line, A on Liberty Avenue and IRT (not sure now which trains run to Flatbush Avenue and which to New Lots Avenue) east of Utica Avenue on I think Van Siclan Street (spelling), Broadway Brooklyn elevated, M and J, on eastern part of Fulton Street east of East New York, M on Myrtle Avenue north of Briadway. LIRR on Atlantic Avenue count? The Nostrand Avenue station is a typical rapid transit elevated station on the LIRR! Also, short stretch of the L, Canarsy line, East New York - Atlatnic Avenue area, then surface to Canarsie-Rockaway Avenue
Brooklyn els and embankments: F between Bergan and 4th Avenue on Smith and 9th Streets, West End D on New Utrecht and 86th St and PRW from about 5th Avenue and 39th Street to Coney Island, Sea Beach near Cony Island, rest of line depressed in cut, Culver F from south of Church Avenue to Coney Island, Q and B Brighton Avenue H to Coney Island, north of Avenue H depressed in cut, Frankllin shuttle. most of the line, A on Liberty Avenue and IRT (not sure now which trains run to Flatbush Avenue and which to New Lots Avenue) east of Utica Avenue on I think Van Siclan Street (spelling), Broadway Brooklyn elevated, M and J, on eastern part of Fulton Street east of East New York, M on Myrtle Avenue north of Briadway. LIRR on Atlantic Avenue count? The Nostrand Avenue station is a typical rapid transit elevated station on the LIRR! Also, short stretch of the L, Canarsy line, East New York - Atlatnic Avenue area, then surface to Canarsie-Rockaway Avenue
Also the Brighton Line is on an embankment from south of Av H. to 12th and Neptune Av. Then it is on an elevated structure into Stillwell Av.
One last comment. The Canarsie line had the last grade crossing of the NYCTA.
henry6 If those elevated railways, GCT, Park Ave., trolley cars, and a bustling crowd in the City are as ugly as sin, then I like sin or am a sinner!
If those elevated railways, GCT, Park Ave., trolley cars, and a bustling crowd in the City are as ugly as sin, then I like sin or am a sinner!
See the 34th St spur album
The 34th St Spur went under 2nd Ave El.
daveklepper El structures in Manhattan: The "Manhattanville Viaduct": No. 1 line, Broadway, portals at about 122md Street and 132nd Street. Also No. 1 line, Broadway, 200th-Dyckman Street-bridge at 215th Street. Latter also has a connecting ramp to the A -line 207th Street yard and shops.
El structures in Manhattan: The "Manhattanville Viaduct": No. 1 line, Broadway, portals at about 122md Street and 132nd Street. Also No. 1 line, Broadway, 200th-Dyckman Street-bridge at 215th Street. Latter also has a connecting ramp to the A -line 207th Street yard and shops.
I thought that but wasn't sure...at any rate it is a very short segement. I think I have figured out all the surface/elevated lines that can be ridden...I have done the complete 7 line, J train, and the Astoia Line. One of my upcoming Ride With Me Henry ventures is to take a group and do Brooklyn and the Bronx. I think its a two day or two trip deal.
henry6 It is a French Christmas all over Manhatten Island: NOEL! But there are quit a few el structures in the Bronx, Queens and Brooklyn.
It is a French Christmas all over Manhatten Island: NOEL! But there are quit a few el structures in the Bronx, Queens and Brooklyn.
Johnny
The els had another branch similar to that to Grand Central Depot, then Grand Central Terminal. That branch was over East 34th Street from Third Avenue to the East River 34th Street ferry to the Long Island Rail Road's Long Island City (Queens) Terminal. It passed over the 2nd Avenue Elevated with an interchange station. It was rendered obsolute when the LIRR started running into Penn Station, and far fewer passengers used the ferry service. A reminder of its existance is in photos of the Third Avenue El's 33rd Street station, where the pedestrian overpass connecting the uptown and downtown platforms remained in place. This branch was definitely gone by 1918.
There was also a shuttle connecting the East 129th Street station, used by both 2nd Avenue and 3rd Avenue local trains (but not rush hour expresses, just off peak 3rd Av. local expresses) to the Willis Avenue station, at ground level south of the south bronx NYNH&H yards, with both a track connection and across the platform transfer to New York Westchester and Boston trains and to the New Haven's Harlem River Shuttle, which ran from there to New Rochelle. It was discontinued because most NYW&B and NH shuttle passengers found it more convenient to walk the three blocks distance west to the Third Avenue 133rd Street station, where all express services were avialable directly. When this shuttle was disconinued, a covered walkway was erected for these connecting passengers.
These photo's are tremendous-the last one shows a train straight out of Bachmann's On30 range!
Is any of this still standing today-bear in mind,I'm English and have'nt been to the States?
Steve
Thanks for the favorable reviews. Now I gotta finish beating this dead horse.
Okay I'm done.
Mike
IN any case, they are truly terrific pictures. You deserve special thanks for the trouble for posting them. And it should be easy to come up with three of the ten answers to my question, based on one of your pictures. That leaves only seven to go.
Deggesty Thanks, Henry, for the pictures. They truly show how people were able to reach GCT by public transport many years ago. Yes, all that is related to the spur is not as aesthetic in appearance as the station, but we can see how New Yorkers got around back then. Johnny
Thanks, Henry, for the pictures. They truly show how people were able to reach GCT by public transport many years ago. Yes, all that is related to the spur is not as aesthetic in appearance as the station, but we can see how New Yorkers got around back then.
Not my pics! Thank Wanswheel for sharing!!!!
The spur was the original northern terminal of the Third Avenue elevated as orginaly constructed back in the steam days. And even after the line was extended north to 129th Street and then via a different company (Suburban Rapid Transit or something like that) over the Harlem River and north to Treeemont Avenue, the branch, then worked by shuttles for the short distance, was important. The original electrification was from City Hall-Park Row to the Grand Central Depot, as it was known before construction of the existing building. The group pictures may have been taken with the inauguration of electric service. Steam oiperation north of 42nd Street continued for a few months more, with mixed operation south of 42nd Street.
When the original subway was opened in 1904, the spur became less necessary, because the subway on Fourth Avenue could take poeple from south from Grand Central to lower Manhattan, and both the subway and the elevated were already under Interborogh Rapid Transit Co. Ownership. Opening of the Lexington Avenue subway around 1913, and the adaption of the "H" pattern for Manhattan IRT subway lines, allowed subway travel in three directions from GCT, and the spur was taken down before WWI.
The huge excavation and construction in one of the drawings is for subway construction.
In the first hotel picture, the line running into a cut and then into a tunnel south from GCD became a horsecar line, then a conduit streetcar line, and the tunnel is the now the Park Avenue Vehicular Tunnel; a gift by General Motors to the City on the occasion of the conversion of the New York and Harlem's 4th and Madision Avenue streetcar line, then under GM ownership in 1935, to buses (M-1, M-2), the first of the "Green LInes" to be converted, the last being the 86th Street crosstown in the summer of 1936 (M-18).
This was North America's orginal street railroad and its third railroad, after the B&O and Camdedn and Amboy.
Streetcar service across 42nd Street at the face of the Grand Central Terminal continued through December 1946, when the "B" Broadway-42nd Street Third Avenue Transit System (Red car) line was converted to the M-104 bus.
That thing is as ugly as sin! It sure messes with the architectural beauty of GCT behind it.
As usual, these historically interesting photo postings are up to your usual high standard.
AgentKid
So shovel the coal, let this rattler roll.
"A Train is a Place Going Somewhere" CP Rail Public Timetable
"O. S. Irricana"
. . . __ . ______
1878-1924
Looking north at 42nd St. station of 3rd Ave. El, tracks to Grand Central on the left.
http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?75749
http://www.nycsubway.org/lines/3rdave-el.html
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