During the days when the railroads ran there own passenger scervice, were train crews assined to only one train type there entire career? ( meaning passenger or freight) or was it mixed up? Were the engineers trained to run both passenger and freight?
Just curious,
Justin
The road to to success is always under construction. _____________________________________________________________________________ When the going gets tough, the tough use duct tape.
You started on the extra board at 18 or so (sometimes younger if you were big enough to bluff your way into a job) as either a fireman or brakeman working on freights or switching work. As your seniority got higher, you got called more regularly, and eventually could bid on a job like fireman on a regular fast freight and then on passenger trains.
About that time the railroad generally required firemen to train for and pass the engineer's exams and become qualified as an engineer. Then you would go to the bottom of the engineer's extra board. Usually for a few years you might be called as a fireman one day, and an engineer the next. (Although I understand one Northern Pacific fireman never qualified as an engineer, and spent many years as a fireman on the North Coast Limited getting paid to look out the window of an F-unit.)
Eventually you got enough seniority to bid on a regular job, and after maybe 25-30 years in service you might be able to bid for a job on a regular passenger train. After 40-50 years you might be able to bid on a top train (Empire Builder, Twentieth Century Limited, Super Chief) and work that for a year or two before you retire at age 70.
It would be similar for brakemen, only they grew up to be conductors - first on freight, then on passenger trains. So generally the crew on a passenger train would have many years of experience between them. They would get to know each other from being called on trains together over the years, but they wouldn't work as a team generally.
(There were exceptions...in the South some railroad engineers had a particular black fireman who would work generally with only that engineer as a team, back before they allowed blacks to become engineers. Also, freight conductors used to be assigned cabooses and lived in them when on the road, and they often could pick a brakemen that they wanted to work with them...usually one who 1) knew his job and 2) could cook. Apparently many brakemen owed their long careers to being good at making biscuits!!)
For the majority of engine crews around the country, they worked everything. Most passenger jobs went to the engineer and fireman with the most seniority. The progression went something like this:
Mark up from student trips as fireman to fireman's extra board, which usually covered yard, freight and passenger vacancies caused by incumbent being on vacation, off personal, off injured, etc. Once on extra board may stay there until can hold a job, or may get force assigned to a night yard engine or perhaps an outlying job. Eventually fireman will have enough seniority to hold a job of his choice in yard or freight service. On some roads and terminals firemen protected the hostler jobs too.
During your time firing you would probably have to take your first year exams, if passed you stay working until take second year exams. If passed second year you stay working until third year (some roads) or are needed to take promotion to engineer. By the time you are promoted you may well be firing a nice passenger job, which means fast trips, assigned starting times/days.
On roads/terminals that had seasonal traffic surges you may get put to the engineer's extra board then cut back to firing when rush is over several years before you have enough seniority to get set up running permanently.
Once set up running it's back to the extra board, maybe force assigned to a night or outlying job all over again. That nice passenger job you had is just a memory. Someday you'll have enough seniority as an engineer to hold that passenger job again and be able to have regular hours and starting times again.
There are exceptions. On many roads that served Chicago there was a Chicago Terminal seniority district and all the enginemen worked was yard engines, if yard jobs were reduced they didn't work as had no seniority anywhere else. The C&EI, ATSF and Soo Line are examples. The Soo went to system seniority in 1961. The KCS has/had a Kansas City Terminal seniority district for enginemen.
On the Rock Island the engineers and firemen had three extra boards: one for yard service in Chicago and outlying points to and including Bureau, IL, a road board that covered suburban and passenger, and a passenger board that covered only main line passenger service.
I have a few old rosters from the good old days, and like all of railroading seniority mattered.For example as a fireman youd start in yard service,then freight, then passenger. You could be on an extra board,a regular job,or in a pool. Some railroads would force assign the senior fireman in passenger service to become engineers ( if no one else bid for it) and youd start all over again.Yard to road to passenger. However I have spoken to some guys who liked a certain job and never left it once they had the time to hold it.It all depends on the railroad they were working for.
Conductor side would have been starting as a brakeman ( most roads would seperate ground crafts. yard service couldnt transfer to road and such) in freight, then move your way up to passenger.Get your promotion to conductor adn start all over again. Same as with engineers youd pick a job you loved and stick with it once you had the time. Again standard disclaimer every road was different.
Now the thing about certain jobs is ( even in this day) you would get guys who LOVE the jobs with the early quit and moving a few cars here, then a few cars there.beans and call it a day with 4 hours worked(8 hours paid) Those go to the old heads. Guys who froze their switch keys off and now have the time to hold daylight jobs that are like semi retiremet.Then you have a guy with 1 year seniority working the best paying local as a conductor. Why is that? The job takes 12 hours,tons of switching, walking,fighting with the DS,and all that. No old head will want that job and most everyone who had been on it wanted off. So that one brave soul bids it and holds it cause no one else wants it.Thats how the game works. Once he can hold a better job off he goes and then some other poor *** gets it and bides his time.
Now a days passenger engineers are only working for commuters and amtrak and its sad. In Galesburg a few years before I got on they had a board for engineers that were qualified for passenger runs that could be used for "emergencies". Someone said we also had a brakie board and conductor boards as well. I would loved to have been able to move up to being a passenger hogger.At least then I might still be running lol.
Yes we are on time but this is yesterdays train
Hi guys! Thanks for all the knolagable replies! So it sounds like you worked both when you got enough seniority. I bet that you had to keep time well too!
This has been a great thread.
Sometimes though technology throws a kink into the works. When VIA took over CN and CP's passenger operations, first they tried to set up a type of fireman's board even though the job had been abolished for several years on freight's. Or maybe even a decade. But it didn't work out because these were young fellows. To make a long story short, eventually each run of The Canadian in each direction had the two most senior enginemen available on the board, in the cab. The reason?
Until the VIA Budd built coaches were rebuilt about 1991 or 1992 they used steam heat. And nobody but the older, most senior men knew how the keep the steam generators in the F units running on the fly. The young pup's were causing too many delays because of having to call out mechanics to stopped trains to get the heat on again. The in cab costs were fearsome but the trains did run pretty much on time.
AgentKid
So shovel the coal, let this rattler roll.
"A Train is a Place Going Somewhere" CP Rail Public Timetable
"O. S. Irricana"
. . . __ . ______
Ya as I get older I appreciate more and more that technology is a two-way street. Sure there are a lot of electronic gizmos and stuff around that I don't understand, but there are a lot of 'old school' things that I know about that the kids have no idea about. It's kinda like the old Star Trek episode where they visit a planet whose technology and culture are like the US in the 1920's. Capt. Kirk can travel at warp speed across the galaxy using incredibly sophisticated engineering...but can't drive a stick shift.
Wow. Seems like whenever I see a pic of VIA cars thay are older. Now it's all electric I think.
Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!
Get the Classic Trains twice-monthly newsletter