Life on El Capitan

[wanswheel]

http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c?q=4aa594a5889be5cc_large     passengers

http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c?q=43c5cb81a00c7536_large      passengers

http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c?q=d4b5786abb6fc96d_large       train

http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c?q=3cb045f47f07b661_large        train

http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c?q=b22cf0ec8655d0ad_large       cajon

http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c?q=94dba93de4f66ea9_large      cajon

http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c?q=93643b8944f6e2a7_large      needles

http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c?q=f60d77bada3e557a_large      engineer

http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c?q=26be5a06adf98e41_large      engineer

http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c?q=e7c3b6f2190ee305_large       coach

http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c?q=1886ac0483d93e9c_large      porter

http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c?q=3969979539fcc4ec_large        smoke

http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c?q=b75ed316181891a0_large      dine

http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c?q=51b43ae346190715_large      dine

http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c?q=1cadfdac5e662b39_large        bud

http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c?q=3ca0ff5197bd7dc1_large         music

http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c?q=ba782850183c08e0_large     dance

http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c?q=41ffff6079572d7c_large        sleep

http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c?q=c38b9767c71f1f98_large       sleep

http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c?q=2b83b6ca9b06aaac_large     military

http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c?q=6f6dacda2e337bf7_large       baby

http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c?q=57514eb0aad2770b_large     chicago

[Texas Chief]

Wanswheel, that was one heck of a nice set of pictures. Thanks for sharing them with us.

Dick

Texas Chief

[The Commodore]

 This was one fine posting.  Never was able to travel on the named trains out West.  But, thanks for all the interesting photographs. 

[spikejones52002]

 A friend of mine sister worked as a nurse on the El Capitan. She said that the passengers were treated like Kings and Queens. The employees were very second rate.

My big question is. do you have permission to publish copyright photos?

Even though you showed "LIFE" in the corners. That does not give you permission.

[Redwards]

See the link below for information on Google hosting millions of photographs from the LIFE magazine archives: 

http://images.google.com/hosted/life

--Reed

[spikejones52002]

 Thanks for the information redward.

I just do not want anyone to get into problems, like all those people who downloaded music.

[inarevil]

The Santa Fe was always my favorite road and though I wasn't around to see first hand the named trains of the era such as the El Capitan, I was certainly awed by the keen eye of the photographer(s) in capturing life on this train.  Thanks for sharing!

[wanswheel]

Thanks for clicking the links and thanks for the cheerful comments.

Most of the El Capitan pictures are by Peter Stackpole (1913-1997).

http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c?q=d0f8543ac7f0f2cc_large

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F0DE3DC1F39F937A25756C0A961958260

He also took this picture of the Golden Gate.

http://images.artnet.com/artwork_images_423969340_267359_peter-stackpole.jpg

And these trains at Cajon Pass.

http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c?q=4a2fa1350d74c35e_large

http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c?q=a53f44c3407ce07e_large

The picures of military personnel, the baby and the train at Needles are by Sam Shere (1904-1982).

http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c?q=8cd464f9cac0ae9f_landing

http://64.233.169.132/search?q=cache:19FKaIhjVjQJ:www.billjayonphotography.com/ExplosionoftheHindenb.pdf+%22sam+shere%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us

http://stateoftheart.popphoto.com/./photos/uncategorized/2008/05/06/picture_1.png

Mike

[al-in-chgo]

All the pics are wonderful, and I had myself guessing if LIFE had done a full feature on the El Cap, because the B&W print quality and (perhaps more important) visual style of presentation argues for one photographer.  It was kind of you to include Mr. Stackpole's obituary. 

Before this, I never knew the El Cap was a traditional, single-level streamliner.  I wonder if there's anyone around here who can tell me: 

1) What year did the El Cap start going to Hi-Rise cars?  If "bilevel" is a better catchall term, please let me know that too.

2) What year were the Super Chief and the El Cap run as a single train?.  This could be the off-season of some year even if they still ran as separate trains in high season for a few years more as IIRC.

3) And now the other shoe drops:  Was there a year when the El Cap and Super Chief ran combined all the time --- that is, no separate trains even in high season.  And did that happen a lot of time before Amtrak's initiation (1971)? 

Perhaps someone can recommend a book or site (and an "art book" is fine if it's well narrated)  re the end of ATSF-operated passenger service and/or the merger with BN over twenty years later? 

Inquiring minds, etc.

Thanks

a.s.

 

[Deggesty]

al-in-chgo

All the pics are wonderful, and I had myself guessing if LIFE had done a full feature on the El Cap, because the B&W print quality and (perhaps more important) visual style of presentation argues for one photographer.  It was kind of you to include Mr. Stackpole's obituary. 

Before this, I never knew the El Cap was a traditional, single-level streamliner.  I wonder if there's anyone around here who can tell me: 

1) What year did the El Cap start going to Hi-Rise cars?  If "bilevel" is a better catchall term, please let me know that too.

2) What year were the Super Chief and the El Cap run as a single train?.  This could be the off-season of some year even if they still ran as separate trains in high season for a few years more as IIRC.

3) And now the other shoe drops:  Was there a year when the El Cap and Super Chief ran combined all the time --- that is, no separate trains even in high season.  And did that happen a lot of time before Amtrak's initiation (1971)? 

Perhaps someone can recommend a book or site (and an "art book" is fine if it's well narrated)  re the end of ATSF-operated passenger service and/or the merger with BN over twenty years later? 

Inquiring minds, etc.

Thanks

a.s.

 

I agree, Al, the pictures are wonderful. They made me wish I could have ridden the train back then. My only trip on El Capitan (incidentally, "El" means "the," so if you say, "the  El Capitan," you are saying, "the The Captain") came in 1972, so it was the combined train that Amtrak was operating.

The train entered service in 1938, running twice a week on days that the Super Chief, which then began running twice instead of once a week, did not run. In 1941, it began running three times a week, again alternating with the premium train. In 1947, both trains were re-equipped, and daily operation for both was begun. In 1954, two high-level coaches were operated together, experimentally. In 1956, El Capitan received the high level equipment (about the same time that Aerotrain and Train-X were tried out; Trains had articles about the two new extremes in car height).

The only information I have concerning combination of the two by the SFe states that they were combined except for summer season service in 1958. If no one else can give you more detail, I will dig my Santa Fe timetables out.

Johnny

[The Commodore]

As I said earlier, great photo collection about one very famous train.  I'm wondering if anyone has anything similar about such trains as The 20th Century Ltd., The Broadway Ltd., The East Coast Champion (ACL), The Crescent Ltd, (Southern)?  By the way, thanks for the info about Google and Life.  I used to really enjoy Life Magazine when I was a youngster.

All the best,

Michael

[spikejones52002]

AL-IN-Chgo

What is train x that you mentioned?

[passengerfan]

al-in-chgo

All the pics are wonderful, and I had myself guessing if LIFE had done a full feature on the El Cap, because the B&W print quality and (perhaps more important) visual style of presentation argues for one photographer.  It was kind of you to include Mr. Stackpole's obituary. 

Before this, I never knew the El Cap was a traditional, single-level streamliner.  I wonder if there's anyone around here who can tell me: 

1) What year did the El Cap start going to Hi-Rise cars?  If "bilevel" is a better catchall term, please let me know that too.

2) What year were the Super Chief and the El Cap run as a single train?.  This could be the off-season of some year even if they still ran as separate trains in high season for a few years more as IIRC.

3) And now the other shoe drops:  Was there a year when the El Cap and Super Chief ran combined all the time --- that is, no separate trains even in high season.  And did that happen a lot of time before Amtrak's initiation (1971)? 

Perhaps someone can recommend a book or site (and an "art book" is fine if it's well narrated)  re the end of ATSF-operated passenger service and/or the merger with BN over twenty years later? 

Inquiring minds, etc.

Thanks

a.s.

 

Al

In 1948 the El Capitan became a daily train with 14 car consists with leg rest seating for 490 or 492 depending on the consist. Each consist had a storage mail car, a baggage dormtory 2 Lunch Counter dining cars, and a club lounge car. This was the first Santa Fe train to be equipped with 44 seat leg rest coaches each consist had eight.

In July 1954 Budd delivered two High Level transition coaches to the Santa Fe. to test travellers opinions of the cars.

In 1956 the Santa Fe completely reequipped the El Capitans with 11 car trains with a seating capacity of 496 passengers each consist carried a conventional height storage mail car, , a baggage Dorm car with an air adaptor to the hi-level cars in the rest of the train these were a 68-seat Hi-Level coach with step down forward to the baggage Dorm car, 2- 72 seat Hi-Level coaches, 80-seat Hi-Level Dining Car with Kitchen on lower level. Next was the Top of the Cap Lounge car with seating for 88 and bar facilities on both levels. This was followed by three 72 seat Hi-Level Coaches and finally a 68 - seat Hi-Level step down coach with step down at rear brought up the markers.

In 1958 the El Capitan was combined with the Super Chief in the non peak travel periods. In 1960 this became permanent year round after the 1960 Christmas season.

Twenty two additional Hi-Level coaches and step down coaches were built by Budd in in 1964 replacing many of those in the El Capitan which were than operated in the San Francisco Chief.  

Hope this helps Al.

Al - in - Stockton    

[Deggesty]

spikejones52002

AL-IN-Chgo

What is train x that you mentioned?

Well, spikejones, you made me work. Since I did not remember much detail about Train X, I had to dig the May 1956 issue of Trains out. It has a nice painting on the cover of the Aerotrain overtaking and passing a Santa Fe freight that is powered by #1780 (I think that is the number). This painting represents a part of the run of the Aerotrain to Los Angeles from Chicago in March of 1956 (I wished that I could have taken the trip, but I was a poor college student at the time).

This particular issue of Trains treats all of the equipment that was new at that time–Aerotrain, Train X, and the Pennsy’s tubular train. (It was the tubular train that was described in the same issue which described the Santa Fe’s high level cars, and not Aerotrain and Train X.)

Train X was much like the Talgo–except for the center car, each car had only one axle; the center car had an axle at each end. The locomotive was built by Baldwin-Lima-Hamilton, using a 1000 hp supercharged V12 diesel (that was of foreign origin, since BLH built only in-line engines), had a torque converter transmission, and diesel-generator set that produced 480 volt, three-phase power for train light, heat, and air conditioning. If the New Haven had bought one, it would have been able to run on the third rail into Grand Central. The NYC operated one or two in Ohio (in a fairly recent post, someone asked about the Xplorer of the NYC; this was the consist).

The Pennsy’s tubular train was built by Budd. The vestibule platforms were at standard height, but the seat floor was much lower that of the vestibule–so when you sat down, you would see the ankles of people who were on a high platform. Apparently, it was not a success. The Pennsy ran it in two round trips a day between New York and Washington.

The Aerotrain was built by General Motors, and each car was essentially a standard GM bus body that was made wide enough (18 inches wider) to give the passengers more comfort and rested on two axles. The couplers were fully automatic, since there was no steam line.

Of the equipment that was new in 1956, only the Santa Fe high level cars lasted. Apparently the original Talgo design was found to be superior to the Train X design.

Word Perfect’s spell checker is ignorant; it did not recognize such good words as "Talgo," "Aerotrain," "XPlorer" "Budd," or "BLH."

Johnny

[wanswheel]

 Xplorer

http://pro.corbis.com/popup/Enlargement.aspx?mediauids={2dfc2c51-0522-4454-a7c6-9b1c8c0aef6f}|{ffffffff-ffff-ffff-ffff-ffffffffffff}&qsPageNo=2&fdid=&Area=Search&TotalCount=112&CurrentPos=40&WinID={2dfc2c51-0522-4454-a7c6-9b1c8c0aef6f}                                                                                                                                        

http://pro.corbis.com/popup/Enlargement.aspx?mediauids={a4f5bfd1-5691-44d4-8352-f3dc51e62a92}|{ffffffff-ffff-ffff-ffff-ffffffffffff}&qsPageNo=1&fdid=&Area=Search&TotalCount=112&CurrentPos=44&WinID={a4f5bfd1-5691-44d4-8352-f3dc51e62a92}    

20th Century Limited

http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c?q=7c273f293a9d8618_large

http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c?q=21f92a28eac72791_large

http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c?q=f19c53217a937017_large

http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c?q=9b72c88ece1fcc9b_large

http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c?q=a58cbcb12b28a935_large  

The Champion

http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c?q=6ce574eca99bd8c9_large

The Rocket

http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c?q=88087fd3c9c29db5_large

http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c?q=27e9cb3764cd3686_large

                                                                                                                            

[spikejones52002]

Any Information about this photo?

[passengerfan]

Looks to be an early Army Redstone Rocket, the type used to put small satellites in Orbit. It was a two stage Rocket with a nose cone to protect the satellite. Probably not to difficult to erect in Grand Central Station. They did not weigh very much without fuel. Also used as an early ICBM.

Al - in - Stockton

[spikejones52002]

 Was the Redstone rocket set up in Grand Central Station?

About what date and for how long?

Was it a actual Rocket or a Prop?

The Redstone as was the Atlas  rockets originally designed as I.C.B.M.s. To save cost was modified (at a high cost and failure) for use by the Space program (Not yet N.A.S.A.).

I am surprised that the rocket was set up in a Public place.

[wanswheel]

The idea sprang from the brain of John F. Zerbey III

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/obituaries/20070302-9999-1m2zerbey.html

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/l?imgurl=8158ba80b763a799&q=grand+central+rocket+source:life&usg=__Mwa84zT41FVYRfjjcZhfAH_L4yA=&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dgrand%2Bcentral%2Brocket%2Bsource:life%26hl%3Den

http://celebrating200years.noaa.gov/magazine/igy/welcome.html#long

[BaltACD]

I had the opportunity, as a kid, to ride on one of the demonstration trips out of Washington DC on the high-level El Capitan equipment.   Great short, diner trip.  Out to Point of Rocks and return, as I recall.

[diningcar]

Did I miss something here??? I thought we were discussing the the El Capitan.

[The Commodore]

 Dining Car,

   It must have jumped the track.

The Commodore

 

 

 

 

 

1

[wanswheel]

I've learned.  Never put a rocket in Grand Central.

http://photoswest.org/photos/00002126/00002186.jpg        Alco PA-1 1950

http://photoswest.org/photos/00002126/00002127.jpg         EMC E1 1939

http://photoswest.org/photos/00001251/00001362.jpg         2-8-8-2 and E6  1944

http://photoswest.org/photos/00001126/00001134.jpg         2-10-2 and E1 1938

http://photoswest.org/photos/00002251/00002289.jpg         Raton Tunnel 1938

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=627345     1969

[The Commodore]

Once again great photographs of the El Capitan.  Does anyone have similar photographs for the Super Chief and other western name trains?

 While I'm about Season's greeting to everyone on the Forum.  I greatly enjoyed traveling at Christmas time, in uniform, on the Champion.  The club car was a fine place to hang out and I remember that the steward would always give us fair warning about a dry state coming up.  I think it was North Carolina and everyone could stock up as it were.

All the best,

The Commodore

[De Luxe]

 Are those first set of pics from 1938? The train looks so new there, and I also think that it´s 1938 since the E-1 Units are shown...

[wanswheel]

The photos by Peter Stackpole were taken in 1939.

http://images.google.com/images?ndsp=20&hl=en&q=el+capitan+stackpole+source:life&start=0&sa=N

The photos by Sam Shere were taken in 1945.

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=el+capitan+shere+source%3Alife&btnG=Search+Images

[SSW9389]

I rode the El Capitan in June 1964 from Williams Junction, Arizona to Los Angeles. It was quite an experience for a nine year old. Wish I was more of a railfan then.

 

Ed

[atsf]

This brings back great memories from the 60's. Labor Day weekend of 1964, I planned to take the L&N from Louisville to Cincinnati, but the train was several hours late and I took the Greyhound in order to make my connection to the B&O from Cincinnati to St Louis. I then was taking a Steam Excursion over to Centralia, Illinois on Saturday.  Left St. Louis on Saturday night on MO PAC to Kansas City.  I planned to take whatever train I could get on the Santa Fe to Chicago on Sunday, and on arrival in KC found the El Capitan was running several hours late and was able to get my first ride on the Santa Fe and in the Hi-Level Chair Cars at that time.  My most memorable trip on the Santa Fe came just before Labor Day in 1966 on my way to Vietnam. I had been home for a few weeks before going over and was going to be doing a lot of riding planes, so I decided to take the train West.  I caught the Pennsylvania #95 at Seymour, IN to Chicago overnight, and then that evening boarded the El Capitan for Los Angeles. As noted in the previous post, the El Capitan and Super Chief operated as one part of the year, and as separate sections at other times.  On the day I rode, the Super Chief was a separate section and I was in the last seat of the train (the 68 seat car) with the steps in the middle going down to the level of a standard level car.  This was my first long train ride and one I will never forget.  As noted in the consist, I had to walk the length of 4 Coaches, and the Lounge Car to get to the Diner.  Shortly after leaving Chicago, I made my way to the Diner before it closed for the evening (train departed Chicago around 6 or 7 PM back then). I was seated with two other military men who were about done eating and ready to leave and I noted they each left the waiter a dime tip. However, even then my server provided excellent service and my coffee cup could not get empty.  When I went to leave I had placed a 20% tip on the tray which my waiter had been eyeing.  As I got up to leave he came and asked how far I was going and would I be having breakfast the next morning to which I answered yes.  After that I was always seated at a table by myself and he even came looking for the me the next morning, thinking I was not going to get there before they closed.  He asked was I going to have juice, and when I got to the diner my juice and coffee were already on my table.  I must say I felt very special on that trip and at the last breakfast before arriving in Los Angeles, he and the steward both wishing my luck in Vietnam.

 

George

on the Atchison, Topeka and Santa Fe

[daveklepper]

George, I am glad you returned in good shape.   Thank the Lord.

I'm a Veteran but stayed stateside.

[richhotrain]

wanswheel,

Not to be fussy, but can you colorize those photos for us?  

Rich

P.S.  Great photos, thanks for bringing them to us.