20th Century Ltd. and The Super Chief

[The Commodore]

Would people who were lucky to travel coast to coast on these two great trains share their memories with the rest of us,  One of my great regrets is that I only traveled out West on Amtrak's versions such as The Desert Wind, Coast Starlight, Empire Builder and others.  What was it like to travel in the DeLuxe style?

 

[passengerfan]

I was lucky enough to ride the Twentieth Century Limited in 1967 before it became a nameless New York - Chicago train and once again in 1968 after it became the nameless train.

I found the lounge car looking a little threadbare and a little unkempt. It was late in 1967 when I rode the train I think around October. The meal in the dining car was superb that evening did not both for breakfast the next AM was sitting in the lounge as we travelled along the Hudson inbound to New York. Having ridden the Broadway Limited the year before I was quite honestly diasappointed in the Twentieth Century Limited. The PRR maintenance and cleaning crews far outshone those of the NYC.

The Super Chief I had occasion to ride several times the first couple of times when it was a separate train from the Hi-Level El Capitan and the last few times when they ran combined. There was absolutely no difference. Coach passenger were never allowed to wander down to the Super Chief and likewise Super Chief passengers were not allowed into the El Capitan.

The Super Chief was one of the cleanest trains I ever travelled on and it was always a pleasurable experience. Travelled the Super Chief from Kansas City to Los Angeles on most trips only made one trip on the Super all of the way to Chicago. Dining was superb and the lounge that served adult beverages was in the Supers Pleasure Dome. Once when riding in the rear Observation lounge a passenger offered to buy the five or six of us a drink and one mentioned they did not serve drinks in that lounge area. The passenger summoned the car attendant who took our order and returned with the drinks in about five minutes. So I guess for a tip you could be served anywhere on the Super Chief. I was truly impressed at the time. I was always impressed by the cleanliness of the rooms and common areas of the Super Chief. It truly was super in every sense of the word. My dad paid for most of my travels on the Super Chief when I was in the Navy and they did not see many enlisted men in the Super Chief. I had a good laugh with my car attendant on one trip who kept trying to tell me the coaches were forward, and I was having trouble digging out my ticket and finally he just asked my name and said right this way sir and we boarded his car and I was shown to my roomette. Never had a bad experience on the Super, Broadway or Twentieth Century Limited but guess I was disappointed in the Twentieth Century as maybe I rode it to late to see it in all it's glory.

Al - in - Stockton    

[The Commodore]

 Thanks much for your observations, the Super Chief seems to have keep up the service.  I never had the chance to ride any of the Western runs until after Amtrak.  Still, I rode The Champion when it was still an excellent way to get from New York to Florida.  The Coast Guard had me undergo training in New Jersey and thence to Groton, Conn. That enabled me to ride some of the trains in the North East in 1956-57.The only time I had the service you described on The Super Chief was when I crossed the pond on the Stefan Batory to Tilbury, England.  I might add the trains service in Britain was fine but, they strangely enough never seemed to make a decent cup of tea.  The coffee was powdered instant in a foam cup, really wretched stuff.  I think the meals I had on the British Rail trains were not all that good as well.  Nothing to compare to Atlantic Coast Line and or Southern RR. Too bad I never managed to ride the two big named trains in America.]

 

 

 

[jrbernier]

  I rode several 'Western' trains in the late 60's and they were good trains.  Both the EB & NCL had very nice equipment, and the service was good.  The CZ was another good one.  The Shasta Daylight was really going down hill and one could see that the SP really did not want to run it.  Midwest 'day' trains like the Hiawatha and Zephyr were still good, but the size of the trains was shrinking.

  The EB was very nice, and had dedicated dome seating for sleeper passengers in the full length dome.  The lounge car(Ranch Car) was well done and was positioned up with the coaches.

  The NCL also had a nice lounge car(Lewis & Clark Travelers Rest), and still had stewardess service.  The sleeping car passengers had a 'Cocktail in the Sky' lounge in one of the dome sleepers.

  The CZ was a great train as well, but one could see that WP wanted to get rid of it.  I do not remember if there was stewardess service on the train in 1968. 

  The Twin Zephyr was down to a Bagg/Buffet car and a few Dome-Coaches.  The train was still 6-7 cars long in 1966, but dropped to 3-4 cars in 1967.  The Hiawathas were still running with the Skytop observations, but in 1968 the size of the trains decreased, and the Morning 'Hi' lost it's Skytop as it was now forwarding express cars between Milwaukee & Chicago. 

  My favorite train was the GN local between the Twin Cities & the Twin Ports.  The Badger/Gopher has a mix of rebuilt HW and streamline cars(usually 4-6) and the morning runs stopped at every small town.  A seat in the  'parlor' car(Twin Cities/Twin Ports) could be ridden for something like a $1.80 over the normal RT 'excursion' fare of $6.66!  For teenage railfans, this was an all day event with about 5 hours in Duluth for railfanning.

Jim

[The Commodore]

Thanks for your take on Midwestern Trains.  Sounds as if you had a lot of  choices in your area of the world.  When I was in the 9th grade (1952-53), I could distracted by a small steam engine switching freight on some siding about 200 yards away.  The one day I looked out and it had been replaced by a diesel SW1500?  I did get the chance to ride a lot trains when I was a kid.  Mostly Southern, Atlantic Coast Line and Seaboard.  They were mostly named trains going from Chicago, Cinn. to Miami or from New York to Miami.  In Jacksonville they mostly hitched up with The Florida East Coast RR for the Jax to Miami run.  I remember one trip (I was 14) from Jacksonville to Hollywood, Florida and it was called the Champion but was run over the Florida East Coast for that segment of the trip.  Spent a lot of my time in the observation car lounge drinking ginger ale and looking out the rear windows.

All the best,

Michael 

 

 

[De Luxe]

Hello travellers,

is there anyone who rode the MILW Olympian Hiawatha and SP Sunset Limited during their glory days in the 50ies?? I would be interested in reading how lifestyle and comfort have been on these two trains (which beside the Super Chief are my most favorite western passenger trains from the golden era). 

[erikem]

 I'm pretty sure that I rode the Milw Olympian Hiawatha in 1957, but can't say much about the experience as I was 33 months old at the time (but I do remember riding the train).

[The Commodore]

 33 monthes, you're never too young to become a rail fan!  My earliest memory is around 4 years of age traveling in a Drawing room with my mom and brother.  I thought dining cars were pretty neat too!

michael

[diningcar]

It was my pleasure to work 35 years for Santa Fe and we the non-train employees were well aware of the significance the Super Chief had with Santa Fe's executives. It was to be run on time unless unusual circumstances intervined; but never to be operated unsafely to achieve that goal.

Santa Fe had previously operated a passenger train which had the objective to be "The Best". It was the Santa Fe Deluxe and its soul was the dining car. It was the one indispensable car which created the personality of the train and established its reputation.

A similar objective was established with the Super Chief when it was created in 1936. The Santa Fe tradition of service and gastronomic excellence was carried a step further. Its dining car offered menu selections available elsewhere only in the most expensive restaurants.The meals were prepared by chefs trained in European cuisine under the general supervision of stewards trained in the best traditions of Continental maitres d' hotel.

While such delicacies as blue points, lobster, caviar and cherries jubilee were routine, it was the little things which made the difference, such as warm water in the finger bowls; the morning wake up calls with coffee and orange juice served in the passenger's bedroom. Or perhaps the steward whispering in the diner's ear that he had just received on board at La Junta or Raton a few freshly caught rainbow trout which could be prepared to his or her order.

And the artistic chef who delighted in learning the names of children in his car, following which he would prepare a French-fried potato fashioned into a continuous script of the childs name.

And the service provided by the rest of the on-board crew was equally accomodating. A trip on the Super Chief was a travel adventure to be remembered as one one of a kind. 

 

[The Commodore]

 Hi diningcar,

   The service you described was certainly de luxe!   Now I really am sad that I never managed to travel on the Sante Fe in its golden era.  Thanks for sharing your memories!

all the best,

Michael

[daveklepper]

I rode most of the trains mentioned and had similar wonderful experiences, whose memories cheer even now many years later.  Not mentioned so far is the Panama Limited, which was close to the best, if not quite the Super Chief.   Of course, being an overnight, it lacked the scenic appeal of the transcontinentals.  And it is correct to say that maintenance of kept up better on the Broadway than on  the Century, but both were really fine trains in their all-Pullman days.  And one got his pants pressed and shoes shined later on the Century than the Broadway.  The Broadway had the unique Creek cars (unique to the PRR) with single rooms more comfortable than roomettes and priced between a roomette and double bedroom.

Much later, well into the Amtrak era, as good service and food as the Super Chief provided, could be had if one was lucky enough to be invited to "share in the expenses" of one of Richard Horstmann's Lehigh Valley 353 trips.  I was lucky enough, and Dick Horstmann was really a wonderful host, and 353 and any companion sleeper, like Dover Colony, were always in excellent condition and clean.  The most memorial was a Seattle - New York trip via Salt Lake City, Denver, Chicago, and the Broadway to NY.   I was a part owner of Mountain View, sampled Klebolt's Chief Illini, Levin's PRR 120, had the pleasure of a CN business car Jasper - Vancouver and the D&RGW's General Wilson McCarthy between Grand Junction and Denver, the Nomad, and South Africa's Blue Train, but I would say the experience that Dick provided on the 353 was the only private car travel that equalled or even exceeded the Super Chief.   I tried to work in my business trips to take advantage of his hospitality, even once NY - Boston!   353 is now the property of Steamtown, but can still be chartered!