Kansas City, Mexico & Orient R.R.

[RoyPBower]

Seems like Kansas City Southern is bringing to reality the dream of the KCM&O to connect Kansas City to the Orient via a Mexican port. Does KCS use any of the original KCM&O right-of-way? How much of the KCM&O was built and how much remains?

Thanks,

Roy

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

The former Chihuahua-Pacific in Mexico is built along the proposed route of the KCM&O.  There is also a former ATSF branch in Texas (now a shortline) that is also former KCM&O.  I don't think that any of the KCS uses any of the KCM&O route.

[nanaimo73]

KCS has never connected with any part of the KCM&O, which only reached to Wichita at the north/east end.

About 100 miles of the KCM&O survives in Oklahoma as Farmrail, and about 300 miles in Texas as the Texas - Pacifico.

[sd75t]

Actually, the KCM&O got a little farther north of Wichita, reaching what looks like probably Emporia.  There are remnants of its construction still around in the area of Cottonwood Falls, Cassoday, and Matfield Green, all north of Cassoday.

[egmurphy]

Seems like Kansas City Southern is bringing to reality the dream of the KCM&O to connect Kansas City to the Orient via a Mexican port.

They are bringing the dream to a reality, but not by using the KCM&O alignment.  KCS crosses at Laredo, and goes through Saltillo and San Luis Potosí to reach the coast at Lazaro Cardenas.  See the KCS system map here:

http://www.kcsouthern.com/SiteCollectionDocuments/system_map.pdf

 

Does KCS use any of the original KCM&O right-of-way?

Not in Mexico.  The old KCM&O r-o-w in Mexico (Ojinaga to Los Mochis) is part of Ferromex (FXE).  See the FXE system map here:

http://www.ferromex.com.mx/serv/rutas.html

 

How much of the KCM&O was built and how much remains?

In Mexico, KCM&O built from Topolobampo/Los Mochis inland past El Fuerte, and from Presidio/Ojinaga (on the US border) through Chihuahua down to around Creel.  What they never completed (due to interuptions from the Mexican Revolution and financial problems) was the hard part through the mountains.  The government completed that section in around 1961.  So basically all the old KCM&O alignment in Mexico (allowing for some realignments) is still in use.

The best book on the subject is "Destination Topolobampo" by John Leeds Kerr.  Out of print, but usually shows up from time to time on ebay.

Best regards

Ed

[Anderphoto]

Here's the KCM&O's well preserved former Texas HQ at San Angelo...

http://anderphoto.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1143861

and with the current display for the Ry. Museum of San Angelo...

http://anderphoto.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1143863

Glenn Anderson

[RoyPBower]

Thanks for the great photos and all the information!

[Anonymous]

The former Chihuahua-Pacific in Mexico is built along the proposed route of the KCM&O.  There is also a former ATSF branch in Texas (now a shortline) that is also former KCM&O.  I don't think that any of the KCS uses any of the KCM&O route.

The route you are referring to is now known as the Texas Pacifico.  After ATSF gave up on the line and the South Orient Railway intended to abandon the route, the state of Texas stepped in and acquired the line.  It leased it to FerroMex which is operating it as Texas Pacifico.

Texaas Pacifico has its own website.  You can find it at:

http://www.txpf.com

Hope this information helps!

 

[Anonymous]

The KCM&O depot in San Angelo Texas has been restored.

You can find some pictures here:

http://railwaymuseumsanangelo.homestead.com/

 

 

[RRKen]

Thanks Murray.  That line could also be useful for the UP should the steamship lines tell California where to go.

[diningcar]

sd75t,  The Orient constructed some grading and bridge abutments south of Emporia, and had acquired ROW but never built track upon it.

[twopdhart]

I was out in West Texas awhile back on business and happened on the KCM&O at a ranch road crossing south of where it leaves the Southern Pacific line (west of Alpine) and heads across the desert to Presidio. I was surprised how well maintained the right-of-way was, much better than the weedy roadbed and rusty rails visible from Interstate 10 near Fort Stockton. Obviously the Tejas al Pacifico has put some money into upgrading track. Is it getting any business? BTW, this is the area where the legendary Marfa Lights can be seen most lights. It gets really spooky out there after dark!

 

[egmurphy]

I..... Obviously the Tejas al Pacifico has put some money into upgrading track. Is it getting any business? ....

I seem to recall that Texas-Pacifico Transportation Ltd (which is the railroad that is leasing that trackage) is owned by Grupo Mexico, who are 74% owners of Ferromex.  UP, of course, has a 26% stake in Ferromex.  So I'd guess that between the two of them they see this as a viable outlet for traffic coming north out of Chihuahua and headed for the midwest, and grain shipments headed from the midwest to Mexico.  If nothing else it provides a quick connection to the UP mainline at Alpine.

Texas-Pacifico route map here: http://www.txpf.com/mapaSet.html

Their main website is simply www.txpf.com

Regards

Ed

[csmith9474]

Great thread!!! I came to know that line quite well between Ft Stockton and Presidio while working a summer in Big Bend National Park. It was in '93 during the South Orient days. I got to know the station master in Presidio while railfanning out there. I noticed a motor car sitting in the yard, still in Santa Fe markings (MT-19A), and he told me that if I bought a battery, provided gas, and was able to get it started, he would let me run it. I thought that I wouldn't get out of the yard with it, but he let me loose on the main with it. That was the best motor car run I have ever done!!! Of course he said if I wanted to run it that I needed to check with him to make sure there were no trains that day.

I was also offered a ride in the hi railer from Presidio to Alpine, and unfortunately never had the chance to do it. I would assume that we would only have gone as far as Paisano Pass.

The SO seemed like a really informal outfit, especially given the opportunity to do what I did. I seem to recall one of the employees telling me that the owner was a "rail buff". Really neat piece of railroad out there. I wonder if the motor cars are still there. There were cars in the shed in Ft Stockton (along with a lot of parts), one in Alpine, and obviously the one in Presidio (which was just sitting outdoors). I went in all the buildings that I could (with permission), and it seems the Santa Fe just up and left everything.

I hope I didn't bore y'all with all this.