Great Northern 1958

[clarkfork]

Both NP's North Coast Limited and the GN's Empire Builder went through Fargo late at night/early in the morning.  (Amtrak still does.)  I doubt they would wash the train at that hour of the night. 

If you were in Fargo during the day riding a dome car you could have been on GN's Western Star.  In the late 50s and/or early 60s GN put a dome coach on the Western Star during the fall, winter and spring off season.

[agentatascadero]

Another thing to remember is that the NCL and EB were combined on the SP&S west of Pasco, WA.  My thought regards the routing via Portland is that seats to Seattle, the more direct routing, were sold out, leading to the Portland "detour".  Highly unlikely the City of Portland, which goes nowhere near Montana, or the Olympian Hiawatha would have used, the Hi requires a "midnight" transfer at Spokane in order to get to Portland.  One point about scenery/routing...the NP route was far more scenic and mountainous than the GN route which is far more flat.  The fact that domes were involved would rule out the secondary trains.  So, if your route went over/through "27 mountain ranges", you went via the NP, the older, more primitive, more scenic route, as compared to GN.  Sort of like the difference between the CN and CP routes across Canada, CP vastly more scenic and primitive.  AA

[KCSfan]

 I think that you rode the Empire Builder. The only connection that you could have made from St Louis would have been the GM&O's Abraham Lincoln which arrived in Union Station Chicago at 2:08 PM and the westbound Builder left at 2:30 PM. No Wabash or IC trains would have made a reasonable connection in Chicago and the Milwaukee would have not run through Fargo. The North Coast Limited left Chicago at 12:30 PM and it has no connection with any train from St Louis

aricat,

Are you sure about those schedules. I don't have a '58 OG but a few years earlier the departure times from Chicago were 11:30 am for the NCL and 1:00 pm for the EB. Of course by 1958 their schedules could have been changed to the 12:30 and 2:30 pm departures that you stated. If the earlier times were correct he would've had to take one of the three overnight trains from St.L to Chi and it would most likely have been the GM&O's Midnight Special since it, the EB and the NCL all used Chi Union Station. 22 minutes between trains in Chi was cutting it pretty close even if one didn't have to change stations. However there may have been enough connecting passengers to justify delaying the EB's departure for up to 30 minutes or so when the Abe Lincoln was running late.

Mark 

[wjstix]

Do you remember what time of day you arrived in Chicago?? If you know when you arrived you may be able to narrow down the choices of what train you arrived on, and what train you left on. If you didn't spend a lot of time changing trains, the arrival and departure times of the two trains must have been pretty close to each other.

Depending on what time of day you left, it could be you weren't on the NCL or Builder at all, could have been on NP's "Mainstreeter" or GN's "Western Star" (or was it still called the "Oriental Limited" in 1958??). Anyway GN and NP had transcontinental trains that ran 'opposite' schedules to their premier trains, so if say the North Coast Limited came into a town at 3 a.m., you could ride the Mainstreeter instead and arrive at say 1 pm instead if you wished.

[yankee flyer]

Aricat

Alot of trains have passed over the bridge since 1958 and my memory is pretty thin for that trip. I remember boarding under the shed in Union station in St. Louis, I don't think I had much of a delay in Chicago and i don't remember getting off the train untill I got to Portland. I could have gotten off the train for ten minutes some where around Montana. We also went through a train wash near the Rocky mountains. It could be that my thoughts were about spending a year on a mountain top in Alaska.

I thank everyone that tried to help. 

Lee S.

[passengerfan]

passengerfan; 

The latest issue of the NRHS Bulletin is devoted to the CB&Q and shows many shots of passenger trains including The Empire Builder and The North Coast Limited. My issue came today. Do you know any NRHS members in your area? If not, you might want to write to the NRHS and ask about obtaining a copy. It's the Winter 2007 issue.

Mel Hazen; Jax, FL

Received my copy of the NRHS Bulletin today and found one glaring error on page 32 where they mention that there were only two pendulum car one owned by CB&Q and one by Santa Fe. They omitted the third one owned by GN that lasted right up to Amtrak as an extra car on the Seattle /Portland GN pool train and often used on the Internationals as well. The GN shopped there Pendulum car sometime in the 1950's and enlarged the windows and squared them off. Otherwise and excellent issue I read from cover to cover as usual.

TTFN Al

[aricat]

 I think that you rode the Empire Builder. The only connection that you could have made from St Louis would have been the GM&O's Abraham Lincoln which arrived in Union Station Chicago at 2:08 PM and the westbound Builder left at 2:30 PM. No Wabash or IC trains would have made a reasonable connection in Chicago and the Milwaukee would have not run through Fargo. The North Coast Limited left Chicago at 12:30 PM and it has no connection with any train from St Louis

[RRCharlie]

passengerfan; 

The latest issue of the NRHS Bulletin is devoted to the CB&Q and shows many shots of passenger trains including The Empire Builder and The North Coast Limited. My issue came today. Do you know any NRHS members in your area? If not, you might want to write to the NRHS and ask about obtaining a copy. It's the Winter 2007 issue.

Mel Hazen; Jax, FL

[Anonymous]

If you can recall any of the towns you went through in Montana that would solve this mystery for sure.

[yankee flyer]

Do you remember any female attendants on the train?? In 1958 NP had stewardesses, GN or MILW didn't.

Stix

No, I do not think so. I seem to remember one male attendant for our car. Also the conductor came through. I was a flatlander and had never been to the mountains before. I was impressed then and still am. I was not aware that I would have had so many choices of trains. I just made a reservation to the Tacoma airport and  vaado voom, thats was it. 

Happy Railroading  

Lee S.

[wjstix]

Do you remember any female attendants on the train?? In 1958 NP had stewardesses, GN or MILW didn't.

[passengerfan]

I to like your answer daveklepper. It is the only logical choice.

[daveklepper]

Except that the Milwaukee did not use short domes on the Olympian Hiawatha and you would not have seen any silver cars.   Possibly just on the Portland - Seattle leg.

 

You could have been routed to Portland and then to Seattle on the North Coast Limited.   Why?  Sold-out seats in the Seattle coaches and availability in one to Portland.

 

I am pretty certain you rode the North Coast Limited.

[yankee flyer]

I don't remember either the GN EMPIRE BUILDER or NP NORTH COAST LIMITED receiving a complete wash anywhere but Seattle or Chicago. The windows and Dome windows were washed on the GN and NP in Montana both eastbound and westbound. I beleive the NP did this at Livingston and the GN at Havre.

There is one other possibility that we have not explored and that is the OLYMPIAN HIAWATHA routed out of Chicago to Spokane and then on the UP to Portland? 

Now that is a very good possibility. My thinking was why would the GN route me to Portland instead of direct to Seattle. I just do not have an accurate enough memory to be sure what train I did take.

Happy Railroading.

Lee S.

[passengerfan]

I don't remember either the GN EMPIRE BUILDER or NP NORTH COAST LIMITED receiving a complete wash anywhere but Seattle or Chicago. The windows and Dome windows were washed on the GN and NP in Montana both eastbound and westbound. I beleive the NP did this at Livingston and the GN at Havre.

There is one other possibility that we have not explored and that is the OLYMPIAN HIAWATHA routed out of Chicago to Spokane and then on the UP to Portland? 

[wjstix]

Well the Empire Builder was operated by three railroads - Great Northern (St. Paul to Seattle) and it's subsidiary companies (co-owned with Northern Pacific) Chicago Burlington and Quincy (Chicago-St.Paul) and Spokane Portland and Seattle (OK this gets a little more complicated, but some of the cars of the Empire Builder split off and were taken by the SP&S to Portland Oregon). All three railroad owned cars for the train, which is why the cars had "EMPIRE BUILDER" in the letterboard with the railroad owner name or initials much smaller at one end - it made it look more unified.

So yes, you would have been pulled by Burlington engines from Chicago to St.Paul; at St.Paul Union Depot the engines would be switched out for GN engines and crews if you were on the Empire Builder. Then your car could have been one of the ones later taken to Portland by the SP&S section of the Builder.

However, a similar process was used by the NP (which as I mentioned owned the other 50% of the CB&Q and SP&S), so it's still possible you were on the North Coast Limited or Mainstreeter!! Plus I believe both trains (EB and NCL) served Fargo.

http://www.gnrhs.org/empire_builder.htm

 

[yankee flyer]

Stix

After 50 years things get pretty hazy. I bought the train ticket from St. Louis to the Seattle airport. My St. louis train went to Chicago were I transfered to the west bound train.  Would not the GN have routed me direct to seattle instead of Portland?  I remember going through the train wash in what I believe was Fargo and I think there was a crew change there.  Would there have been a crew or engine change in St. Paul also?

I'm reading the GREAT NORTHERN,  EMPIRER BUILDER  BY  Bill Yenne I may get some more information from that.  Any who thanks.

Happy Railroading. 

Lee S.

[passengerfan]

GN/CB&Q

 EMPIRE BUILDER

Seattle - Portland - Chicago

(June 3, 1951)

2211 miles

  

FIRST CONSIST Departing Chicago

 

9938A EMD E8A 2,250 hp Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

 

9941B EMD E8A 2,250 hp Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

 

Consist One Departing St. Paul

 

352A EMD F3A 1,500 hp Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

 

352B EMD F3B 1,500 hp Diesel Passenger Booster Unit

 

352C EMD F3A 1,500 hp Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

 

37 Baggage 60'Railway Post Office Car

 

1203 Baggage 21-Crew Dormitory Car

 

1213 60-seat Coach

 

1223 48-seat Coach

 

1230 48-seat Coach

 

1225 48-seat Coach (Chicago - Portland via SP&S to and from Spokane)

 

1245 WHITEFISH LAKE G-N Ranch 14-seat Lunch Counter 12-seat Dinette 18-seat Lounge Car

 

1252 LAKE ELLEN WILSON 36-seat Dining Car

 

1260 SKYKOMISH RIVER 4-Section 1 Compartment 7-Duplex Roomette 3-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car (Chicago - Portland via SP&S to and from Spokane)

 

1371 PITAMAKIN PASS 6-Roomette 5-Double Bedroom 2-Compartment Sleeping Car (Chicago - Portland via SP&S to and from Spokane)

 

1261 SUN RIVER 4-Section 1 Compartment 7-Duplex Roomette 3-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

 

1266 SHEYENNE RIVER 4-Section 1 Compartment 7-Duplex Roomette 3-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

 

1379 BIG HORN PASS 6-Roomettes 5-Double Bedrooms 2-Compartment Sleeping Car

 

701 WAPINITIA PASS SP&S 6-Roomettes 5-Double Bedroom 2-Compartment Sleeping Car

 

129O APPEKUNNY MOUNTAIN 3-Crew Roomette Bar 18-seat Club Lounge 18-seat Lounge Observation

 

SECOND CONSIST

 

364A EMD F7A 1,500 hp Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

 

364B EMD F7B 1,500 hp Diesel Passenger Booster Unit

 

364C EMD F7A 1,500 hp Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

 

42 Baggage 60'Railway Post Office Car

 

1204 Baggage 21-Crew Dormitory

 

1214 60-seat Coach

 

1224 48-seat Coach

 

1220 48-seat Coach

 

1216 48-seat Coach Chicago - Portland via SP&S to and from Spokane)

 

1240 CROSSLEY LAKE G-N Ranch 14-seat Lunch Counter 12-seat Dinette 18-seat -Lounge Car

 

1251 LAKE WENATCHEE 36-seat Dining Car

 

1262 SNOHOMISH RIVER 4-Section 1-Compartment 4-Duplex Roomette 3-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car (Chicago - Portland via SP&S to and from Spokane)

 

1378 FIRE BRAND PASS 6-Roomette 5-Double Bedroom 2-Compartment Sleeping Car (Chicago - Portland via SP&S to and from Spokane)

 

1265 CHUMSTICK RIVER 4-Section 1-Compartment 7-Duplex Roomette 3-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

 

1271 FRASER RIVER 4-Section 1-Compartment 7-Duplex Roomette 3-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

 

1370 ROGERS PASS 6-Roomette 5-Double Bedroom 2-Compartment Sleeping Car

 

1374 PARK CREEK PASS 6-Roomette 5-Double Bedroom 2-Compartment Sleeping Car

 

1292 GOING-TO-THE-SUN MOUNTAIN 3-Crew Roomettes Bar 18-seat Club Lounge 18-seat Lounge Observation

 

 

THIRD CONSIST

 

365A EMD F7A 1,500 hp Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

 

365B EMD F7B 1,500 hp Diesel Passenger Booster Unit

 

365C EMD F7A 1,500 hp Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

 

41 Baggage 60' Railway Post Office Car

 

1202 Baggage 21-Crew Dormitory Car

 

1212 60-seat Coach

 

1215 48-seat Coach

 

1228 48-seat Coach

 

1218 48-seat Coach (Chicago - Portland via SP&S to and from Spokane)

 

1241 RUNNING CRANE LAKE G-N Ranch 14-seat Lunch Counter 12-seat Dinette 18-seat Lounge Car

 

1253 LAKE UNION 36-seat Dining Car

 

1272 SPOKANE RIVER 4-Section 1-Compartment 7-Duplex Roomette 3-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car (Chicago - Portland via SP&S to and from Spokane)

 

1380 SUIATTLE PASS 6-Roomette 5-Double Bedroom 2-Compartment Sleeping Car (Chicago - Portland via SP&S to and from Spokane)

 

1274 BOIS DE SIOUX RIVER 4-Section 1-Compartment 7-Duplex Roomette 3-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

 

1263 MILK RIVER 4-Section 1-Compartment 7-Duplex Roomette 3-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

 

1383 INUYA PASS 6-Roomette 5-Double Bedroom 2-Compartment Sleeping Car

 

1375 JEFFERSON PASS 6-Roomette 5-Double Bedroom 2-Compartment Sleeping Car

 

1293 CATHEDRAL MOUNTAIN 3-Crew Roomettes Bar 18-seat Club Lounge 18-seat Lounge Observation

 

 

FOURTH CONSIST

 

366A EMD F3A 1,500 hp Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

 

366B EMD F3B 1,500 hp Diesel Passenger Booster Unit

 

366C EMD F3A 1,500 hp Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

 

38 Baggage 60'Railway Post Office Car

 

1201 Baggage 21-Crew Dormitory Car

 

1211 60-seat Coach

 

1217 48-seat Coach

 

1222 48-seat Coach

 

1221 48-seat Coach (Chicago - Portland via SP&S to and from Spokane)

 

1244 WHITE PINE LAKE G-N Ranch 14-seat Lunch Counter 12-seat Dinette 18-seat Lounge Car

 

1250 LAKE OF THE ISLES 36-seat Dining Car

 

1273 PEND OREILLE RIVER 4-Section 1-Compartment 4-Duplex Roomette 3-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car (Chicago - Portland via SP&S to and from Spokane)

 

1384 LEWIS & CLARK PASS 6-Roomette 5-Double Bedroom 2-Compartment Sleeping Car (Chicago - Portland via SP&S to and from Spokane)

 

1268 MOUSE RIVER 4-Section 1-Compartment 4-Duplex Roomette 3-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

 

1269 POPLAR RIVER 4-Section 1-Compartment 7-Duplex Roomette 3-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

 

1376 HART PASS 6-Roomette 5-Double Bedroom 2-Compartment Sleeping Car

 

1373 SANTIAM PASS 6-Roomette 5-Double Bedroom 2-Compartment Sleeping Car

 

1291 ST. NICHOLAS MOUNTAIN 3-Crew Roomette Bar 18-seat Club Lounge 18-seat Lounge Observation

 

FIFTH CONSIST

 

367A EMD F3A 1,500 hp Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

 

367B EMD F3B 1,500 hp Diesel Passenger Booster Unit

 

367C EMD F7A 1,500 hp Diesel Passenger Booster Unit

 

39 Baggage 60'Railway Post Office Car

 

1205 Baggage 21-Crew Dormitory Car

 

1210 60-seat Coach

 

1219 48-seat Coach

 

1229 48-seat Coach

 

1227 48-seat Coach (Chicago - Portland via SP&S to and from Spokane)

 

1243 ICEBERG LAKE G-N Ranch 14-seat Lunch Counter 12-seat Dinette 18-seat Lounge Car

 

1254 LAKE MINNETONKA 36-seat Dining Car

 

1267 SKAGIT RIVER 4-Section 1-Compartment 7-Duplex Roomette 3-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car (Chicago - Portland via SP&S to and from Spokane)

 

1381 HAINES PASS 6-Roomette 5-Double Bedroom 2-Compartment Sleeping Car (Chicago - Portland via SP&S to and from Spokane)

 

1264 BAD AXE RIVER 4-Section 1-Compartment 7-Duplex Roomette 3-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

 

702 SNAKE RIVER SP&S 4-Section 1-Compartment 7-Duplex Roomette 3-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

 

1372 AKAMINA PASS 6-Roomette 5-Double Bedroom 2-Compartment Sleeping Car

 

1382 BLEWETT PASS 6-Roomette 5-Double Bedroom 2-Compartment Sleeping Car

 

1295 LITTLE CHIEF MOUNTAIN 3-Crew Roomettes Bar 18-seat Club Lounge 18-seat Lounge Observation

 

[timz]

If you said you thought you were in a full-length one, it would have had to have been on the GN.

He said he didn't change cars between Chicago and Portland-- the long domes just ran to Seattle, didn't they?

[passengerfan]

I'd like to jump in here on this GN discussion and not necessarily change the subject, but ask if anyone here has any good pictures/consist listings of the complete Empire Builder, Green/Orange  paint scheme.

Any thing from 47/48 to the late 50's.....

Thanx, in advance, Byron 

FIRST CONSIST

 

500 EMD E7A 2,000 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

  

501 EMD E7A 2,000 HP Diesel passenger Cab Unit

  

1100 30' Railway Post Office Baggage Car

  

1110 60 Revenue seat Coach

  

1120 48 Revenue seat Leg Rest Coach

  

1121 48 Revenue seat Leg Rest Coach

  

1122 48 Revenue seat Leg Rest Coach (Chicago - Portland)

  

1140 WATERTON LAKE 10 seat Lounge 10 seat Lunch Counter 19 Crew Dormitory Car

  

1150 LAKE SUPERIOR 36 seat Dining Car

 

1160 GUNSIGHT PASS 4 Section 8 Duplex Roomette 4 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

  

1170 BLACKFOOT GLACIER 16 Duplex Roomette 4 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

  

1171 AHERN GLACIER 16 Duplex Roomette 4 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

  

1161 PTARMIGAN PASS 4 Section 8 Duplex Roomette 4 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car (Chicago - Portland)

 

1190 MISSISSIPPI RIVER 2 Double Bedroom 1 Drawing Room Buffet 16 seat Lounge 11 seat Lounge Observation

  

SECOND CONSIST

  

502 EMD E7A 2,000 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

  

503 EMD E7A 2,000 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

  

1101 Baggage 30' Railway Post Office Car

  

1111 60 Revenue seat Coach

  

1123 48 Revenue seat Leg - Rest Coach

 

1124 48 Revenue seat Leg Rest Coach

  

1125 48 Revenue seat Leg Rest Coach (Chicago - Portland)

 

1141 ST. MARY LAKE 10 seat Lounge Car 10 seat Lunch Counter 19 seat Crew Dormitory Car

  

1151 LAKE McDONALD 36 seat Dining Car

  

1162 DAWSON PASS 4 Sections 8 Duplex Roomettes 4 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

  

1172 GRENNELL GLACIER 16 Duplex Roomettes 4 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

  

1173 HANGING GLACIER 16 Duplex Roomette 4 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

  

1163 PIEGAN PASS 4 sections 8 Duplex Roomette 4 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car (Chicago - Portland)

  

1191 MISSOURI RIVER 2 Double Bedroom 1 Drawing Room Buffet 16 seat Lounge 11 seat Lounge Observation

  

THIRD CONSIST

  

504 EMD E7A 2,000 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

  

505 EMD E7A 2,000 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

  

1102 Baggage 30' Railway Post Office Car

  

1112 60 Revenue seat Coach

  

1126 48 Revenue seat Leg Rest Coach

  

1127 48 Revenue seat Leg Rest Coach

 

1128 48 Revenue seat Leg Rest Coach (Chicago - Portland)

  

1142 TWO MEDICINE LAKES 10 seat Lounge 10 seat Lunch Counter 19 Crew Dormitory Car

  

1152 LAKE CHELAN 36 seat Dining Car

  

1164 LOGAN PASS 4 Sections 8 Duplex Roomettes 4 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

  

1174 MANY GLACIER 16 Duplex Roomette 4 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

  

1175 OBERLIN GLACIER 16 Duplex Roomette 4 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

  

1165 TRIPLE DIVIDE PASS 4 Sections 8 Duplex Roomette 4 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car (Chicago - Portland)

  

1192 FLATHEAD RIVER 2 Double Bedroom 1 Drawing Room Buffet 16 seat Lounge 11 seat Lounge Observation

  

FOURTH CONSIST

  

506 EMD E7A 2,000 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

  

507 EMD E7A 2,000 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

  

1103 Baggage 30' Railway Post Office Car

  

1113 60 Revenue seat Coach

  

1129 48 Revenue seat Leg Rest Coach

  

1130 48 Revenue seat Leg Rest Coach

  

1131 48 Revenue seat Coach (Chicago - Portland)

  

1143 COEUR D'ALENE LAKE 10 seat Lounge 10 seat Lunch Counter 19 Crew Dormitory Car

  

1153 LAKE JOSEPHINE 36 seat Dining Car

  

1166 LINCOLN PASS 4 Sections 8 Duplex Roomette 4 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

  

1176 SEXTON GLACIER 16 Duplex Roomette 4 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

  

1177 HARRISON GLACIER 16 Duplex Roomette 4 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

  

1169 SWIFT CURRENT PASS 4 Sections 8 Duplex Roomette 4 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car (Chicago - Portland)

  

1193 KOOTENAI RIVER 2 Double Bedroom 1 Drawing Room Buffet 16 seat Lounge 11 seat Lounge Observation

  

CB&Q OWNED FIFTH CONSIST

  

POWER UNKNOWN

  

1104 Baggage 30' Railway Post Office Car

  

1114 60 Revenue seat Coach

  

1132 48 Revenue seat Leg Rest Coach

  

1133 48 Revenue seat Leg Rest Coach

  

1134 48 Revenue seat Coach (Chicago - Portland)

  

1144 RED EAGLE LAKE 10 seat Lounge 10 seat Lunch Counter 19 seat Crew Dormitory Car

  

1154 LAKE MICHIGAN 36 seat Dining Car

  

1167 CUT BANK PASS 4 Section 8 Duplex Roomette 4 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

  

1178 SPERRY GLACIER 16 Duplex Roomette 4 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

  

1179 SIYEH GLACIER 16 Duplex Roomette 4 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

  

1168 RED GAP PASS 4 Section 8 Duplex Roomette 4 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car (Chicago - Portland)

  

1194 MARIAS RIVER 2 Double Bedroom 1 Drawing Room Buffet 16 seat Lounge 11 seat Lounge Observation

 

Hope this helps these were the original 1947 EMPIRE BUILDER consists. I believe I also have the Mid Century EMPIRE BUILDER consists will have to look them up. 

[EMPIRE II LINE]

I'd like to jump in here on this GN discussion and not necessarily change the subject, but ask if anyone here has any good pictures/consist listings of the complete Empire Builder, Green/Orange  paint scheme.

Any thing from 47/48 to the late 50's.....

Thanx, in advance, Byron 

[wjstix]

 

Thanks for the inputs everyone.

Stix

From the answers to my question,  I'm thinking that I was not on the GN. I am pretty sure it was a short dome car because I seem to remember looking out across the front end of our car.

The question was not important but I think it was a fun puzzle,  just wish I could remember more.

Happy Railroading

Lee S.

 

Well the GN had both short and full-length domes. If you said you thought you were in a full-length one, it would have had to have been on the GN. So it could still be both...plus the roofs of both cars would have been dark green, although the NP one would have been more a forest green and the GN more of a brownish "Pullman" green.

If you remembered eating a "big baked potato" in the dining car, that would narrow it down to the NP. Or if you remembered any towns you went thru, since the NP and GN had different routes, particularly in Montana where the NP was quite a bit south of the GN's Glacier Park line.

Next time you're in the LHS see if they have the recent "North Coast Limited" book which has a fair amount of interior shots and see if any of the pics bring back any memories.

[daveklepper]

Of course I meant MONAD. not NOMAD, sorry for my dislexia!

Not only did the NP not paint their slumbercoaches two-tone green, and left them stainless steel silver, but they were in pool service with the CB&Q's slumbercoaches, to maximize the usefulness.  You could find yourself in an NP slumbercoach Chicago-Denver-Colorado Springs, on the Denver Zephyr, the CB&Q's premier train.   It happened regularly!   The Q  chose to run the Slumbercoach to Colorado Springs and not one of the regular sleepers.   And of course CB&Q slumbercoaches regularly showed up in Seattle on the North Coast Limited.  But the other CB&Q (and SP&S) equipment normally assigned to the North Coast Limited was two-tone green.

[yankee flyer]

 

Thanks for the inputs everyone.

Stix

From the answers to my question,  I'm thinking that I was not on the GN. I am pretty sure it was a short dome car because I seem to remember looking out across the front end of our car.

The question was not important but I think it was a fun puzzle,  just wish I could remember more.

Happy Railroading

Lee S.

 

[wjstix]

It would depend on whether you remember riding in silver cars, or just seeing silver cars?? The first 400 mi. or so of your trip from Chicago would have been on the Burlington, so you would have seen trains like the Zephyr etc. The Burlington used stainless steel unpainted Budd cars. The only silver car you would normally see in a GN or NP train would be on the NP North Coast Limited (or Mainstreeter?).  NP owned some slumbercoaches which for whatever reason were stainless steel rather than two-tone green like their other cars. Of course the engines would have been stainless steel E-units until the NP or GN took over in St.Paul.

Big Sky Blue wasn't introduced until 1967, so you would have been in orange and green GN cars, or dark/light green NP cars in 1958.

One thing that might help is if you remember the domes, how big were they?? GN used some full-length "superdome" type cars, NP never had those, they preferred the "blister top" vistadomes only.

[feltonhill]

I believe NP used the MONAD, derived from the Chinese yin-yang symbol

[daveklepper]

It is the silver that indicates you probably were on the North Coast Limited.   Silver cars rarely appeared on the Empire Builder at the time, because the GN was more careful of preserving a color-matched consist than the NP, where stainless steel fluted Budd equipment operated in some sort of pool service with NP equipment.   So I suspect it was the North Coast Limited.   But except for one or two cars, the train would have been two-tone green.   Cream or white trip, if I remember correctly, no gold.

Other characteristics of the NP train:  The "NOMAD" circular symbol, circle with the wiggle divider in it, a Chinese symbol appropriated by the NP as its trademark as a gateway to Pacific commerce.   The interior of each had this symbol over the door to the vestibule (platform) and the train door at the opposite end.   The great big Idaho potato as a specialty in the dining car.

Possibly your memory includes these?

[yankee flyer]

Doug

Yes it was a spectacular trip. I boarded the dome car in Chicago and never left it until I got to Portland except to eat, which I did in the first class diner. I always had the impression later that I wasn't suppose to be there except that I was in uniform and no one ever said a word about it. Things have really changed. I left from Union Station in St. Louis, It is now a Hotel and shoping center. I havn't been in it in years and the stores may have gone out of business.

I seem to remember being on the north shore of the Columbia although that maybe a false memory.   Second thought!   My ticket took me to Portland even though I was going to SeaTac airport. I may have taken a bus from Portland,  not sure.

Anyway thanks everyone.

Lee S.

[challenger3980]

Hi Lee,

   Do You remember were you on the North or South Bank of the Columbia? I doubt that if You went through Fargo, it was on the City of Portland (UP) but if it was on the South bank it could have been the UP, The City of Portland ran from Chicago to........wait for it................You Guessed it Portland, Oregon. Union Pacific didn't go to Chicago, but they did team with the Milwaukee Road until 1955, then with the CNW after that to serve Chicago.

                                                                                    Doug