Aerotrain - tailcar, is there one around??

[NYCGreg]

I went to the Green Bay museum and saw the Aerotrain there, but it did not have the tail car.  There was the loco, of course, and one or two coaches, but no observation car.

 Is there an Aerotrain tail car at the St. Louis museum??

 

[cnwfan51]

    Hello Greg  Idont think there is a tail car anywhere  not that I can remember  sorry   Larry

[al-in-chgo]

I went to the Green Bay museum and saw the Aerotrain there, but it did not have the tail car.  There was the loco, of course, and one or two coaches, but no observation car.

 Is there an Aerotrain tail car at the St. Louis museum??

 

 

If by "tailcar" you mean a rear-end observation car with no vestibule for a further car, the end of that era (except for refurbishment) seems to have pretty well come with Budd's large delivery to CP of the railway's new CANADIAN streamliner in 1955.

Did GM even make a dedicated "tailcar" for Aerotrain?  It's no surprise that the train as it exists in Green Bay was unsuccessful in actual operation:  it's ultralight-weight and weighed far less than the "lightweight" Budd-type streamlined cars of the era.  IIRC, Aerotrain didn't trip block signals properly and the coaches, which were more like GM city busses attached to RR chassis and bogies than standard stock, gave rides that resulted in criticisms such as "Jiggly" or "surprisingly uncomfortable even at slow speed."  In other words, relatively little time and cash outlay went toward developing Aerotrain.

In fact, I'm a little surprised GM (esp. if it was thru EMD) bothered to come up with a (largely) aluminum-bodied locomotive, esp. considering that ca. 1957, EMD was still producing both cowl and hood motive power.  I guess it was along the lines of GM's concept cars; but the actual RR co's that went with the Aerotrain concept were usually dissatisfied with them and they served out their limited life in less-than-primary passenger route service. 

Ironically, in the recent past I saw an editorial newspaper cartoon that wanted to lobby for better, faster passenger train service but used as its pictorial ideal the Aerotrain!  Striking-looking with its aluminum body, shark nose and horizontal row of headlights, but for heaven's sake, it was probably the closest EMD and those lines who bought Aerotrain came to a railroad Edsel.  And it's now over fifty years old.   -- a. s.

 

[challenger3980]

Al,

   Yes, GM most certainly did build a dedicated "Tail Car" for the Aero-Train. As the coaches took their styling ques from the GM buses, and no, they WEREN"T just converted bus bodies as many like to claim, the "Tail Cars" for the Aero-Train were styled very much like the back end of a 55' Nomad wagon, complete with tail fins (which is likely why these were generally referred to as "Tail Cars", rather than observations) and rear facing seating. IIRC, the Aero-Trains were an all coach train.

    The coaches on the Aero-Train, did show a STRONG family resemblance to the GM buses of the time, complete with the externally accessed baggage compartments, and were full width, much wider than would have been allowed in regular highway service. But they were designed from the outset as rail cars. The air suspension was an enlarged version of the air suspension on the buses, but did prove unsatisfactory in rail use.

    To the best of my knowledge, there were only two Aero-Train train sets ever constructed, they were tested by the Pennsy, NYC and the Union Pacific, I have seen models in the Santa Fe scheme, but I have never read of the real railroad ever having tried them. The PRR, NYC and UP were all dis-satisfied with them and declined to order any after their trial periods ended, and the two sets built, both finished their remaining lives in commuter service on the Rock Island, where they were only used for about ten years before being retired.

   Fortunately, our Zoo-Liner here in Portland, OR which is a scale replica (3 foot gauge, I believe, but could be wrong about that) has been much more popular than the original prototype ever was, and again as far as I know is still in service, along with a Steamer and a smaller infernal combustion engined locomotive.

                                      Doug

  EDIT- according to Wikipedia (trust at your own discretion, on many facts) the Santa Fe, did also demonstrate the Aero-Train. The Portland Zoo Railway is a 30 inch gauge, not 36 inch. Also Disneyland had a replica known as the Viewliner.

[arkansasrailfan]

The Rock Island areotrain is in St. Louis, in bad need of restoration. But I think it has a ob.

[Mr_Ash]

The zooliner still runs, The Santa Fe one is from Disnyland, they had a replica of the aerotrain that was called "Santa Fe and Disneyland Viewliner"

 

[al-in-chgo]

Al,

   Yes, GM most certainly did build a dedicated "Tail Car" for the Aero-Train. As the coaches took their styling ques from the GM buses, and no, they WEREN"T just converted bus bodies as many like to claim, the "Tail Cars" for the Aero-Train were styled very much like the back end of a 55' Nomad wagon, complete with tail fins (which is likely why these were generally referred to as "Tail Cars", rather than observations) and rear facing seating. IIRC, the Aero-Trains were an all coach train.

    The coaches on the Aero-Train, did show a STRONG family resemblance to the GM buses of the time, complete with the externally accessed baggage compartments, and were full width, much wider than would have been allowed in regular highway service. But they were designed from the outset as rail cars. The air suspension was an enlarged version of the air suspension on the buses, but did prove unsatisfactory in rail use.

    To the best of my knowledge, there were only two Aero-Train train sets ever constructed, they were tested by the Pennsy, NYC and the Union Pacific, I have seen models in the Santa Fe scheme, but I have never read of the real railroad ever having tried them. The PRR, NYC and UP were all dis-satisfied with them and declined to order any after their trial periods ended, and the two sets built, both finished their remaining lives in commuter service on the Rock Island, where they were only used for about ten years before being retired.

   Fortunately, our Zoo-Liner here in Portland, OR which is a scale replica (3 foot gauge, I believe, but could be wrong about that) has been much more popular than the original prototype ever was, and again as far as I know is still in service, along with a Steamer and a smaller infernal combustion engined locomotive.

                                      Doug

  EDIT- according to Wikipedia (trust at your own discretion, on many facts) the Santa Fe, did also demonstrate the Aero-Train. The Portland Zoo Railway is a 30 inch gauge, not 36 inch. Also Disneyland had a replica known as the Viewliner.

 

You're absolutely right and I agree to all the details.  Undoubtedly I stated the case too strongly, because I guess I did imply that the manufacturing process for Aerotrain coaches began with a GM assembly line.  In fact, that would have been impossible for the reasons you give -- width, structure and so on.  Re the topic, I originally said above:

     "IIRC, Aerotrain didn't trip block signals properly and the coaches, which were more like GM city busses attached to RR chassis and bogies than standard stock . . . [rode uncomfortably]."  

I would dearly love to see that rear-end "tail" car with the finny tail end.  Did I understand correctly that all the seats in that car were pointed to the rear?  Did GM think that dozens of passengers wanted a rearward view of the train that badly?  Americans as a rule, and if given the choice, do not like seats that face away from the direction of the train (i.e., rearward).  

It seems the Aerotrain, especially if one whole set could be put together, emerges as a full-fledged camp or "Populuxe" item from the Fifties, from that same dear corporation that gave us the old Motoramas.  (, but years ago I saw a particularly silly, funny GM film about Motorama, ca. 1956 or '57, set at the Waldorf-Astoria hotel and roundly [and very humorously] ridiculed by the mock viewers on the old Mystery Science Theater 3000 show on Comedy Central.) 

Someone should indeed write a book!  Any prospective author should know that I am marking Aerotrain:  The Edsel of Fifties Trains as my own.  - a. s.

 

[feltonhill]

I rode the PRR Aerotrain from Harrisburg to Pittsburgh and back.  I believe it was 1956.  I have photos around here someplace.  From a little east of Altoona, over Horseshoe curve to about Cresson I rode in the end of the "tail car".  It was an unfinished or crudely finished shell tacked on the end of the last car.  There was a stool/seat and an air gage, IIRC (I was about 14 at the time).  Noisy ride, but great for photos.  One of the trainmen, maybe the conductor, came through the two piece sliding doors and I thought "there goes the fun", figuring he' would chase me out.  Didn't happen.  He actually stayed there a while and talked with me.  Most of the comments above regarding the ride are true.  It was bouncy and rough, lot of side-to-side motion, but at that age, you don't care.  Great experience.

[espeefoamer]

I live along the UP main line and recall seeing the Aerotrain fairly often as a small boy. I saw the Aerotrain in the St. Louis museum in 1967 but don't recall if it had the tailcar.

[challenger3980]

Al-in-Chgo,

   If You go to ebay and search "Aerotrain" it will give many auctions for related items, War Hawk Reproductions has a photo listed under the title

"GMC Aerotrain #1000 Rear Unit color photo"

  Open the auction page and scroll down to the large pic, it is a very good shot of the rear of the "Tail Car". As far as the rear facing seats, I believe it was only the last row, not all the seats in the car. I could be wrong about the rear facing seats, as I have never actually seen the real Aero-Train, but am familiar with it from photos and models, and of course growing up here in Portland with the "Zooliner".

                               Doug

[Joe Hohmann]

I rode the PRR Aerotrain from Harrisburg to Pittsburgh and back. 

 It was bouncy and rough, lot of side-to-side motion, but at that age, you don't care.  Great experience.

This is the first "first-hand" description I've read. Thanks for posting.

BTW, as a kid who was "nuts" for car styling, the mid-50's GM Motorama in NYC was a real treat for me, and fortunatly, my mother took me to a few. Let the younger generation make fun of things like this...it was an exciting time to be a kid. Joe

 

 

[al-in-chgo]

I rode the PRR Aerotrain from Harrisburg to Pittsburgh and back. 

 It was bouncy and rough, lot of side-to-side motion, but at that age, you don't care.  Great experience.

This is the first "first-hand" description I've read. Thanks for posting.

BTW, as a kid who was "nuts" for car styling, the mid-50's GM Motorama in NYC was a real treat for me, and fortunatly, my mother took me to a few. Let the younger generation make fun of things like this...it was an exciting time to be a kid. Joe 

 

Don't worry Joe:  give it another 15 - 25  years and I'm sure many of the artifacts of 1980s and 1990s "culture" will arouse snickers.  But what?  The grey on grey on eggshell sensory deprivation of the toniest business offices?  Corporate logos, so many of which are based simply on "the wedge" or "the swoosh"?  Fifty-dollar t-shirts? Rear-end spoilers on Ford Focuses?  Three-D puzzles?  I myself am pulling for the Yugo .    -  a. s.

[al-in-chgo]

 

Al-in-Chgo,

   If You go to ebay and search "Aerotrain" it will give many auctions for related items, War Hawk Reproductions has a photo listed under the title

"GMC Aerotrain #1000 Rear Unit color photo"

  Open the auction page and scroll down to the large pic, it is a very good shot of the rear of the "Tail Car". As far as the rear facing seats, I believe it was only the last row, not all the seats in the car. I could be wrong about the rear facing seats, as I have never actually seen the real Aero-Train, but am familiar with it from photos and models, and of course growing up here in Portland with the "Zooliner".

                               Doug

 

 

Chicago, January 21.... 

 Re:  Aerotrain, its tailcar and other equipment. 

        This past Saturday, opportunity came knocking in the form of a mail-order catalog so relevant to this thread that it is almost scary. 

         The cover page and most of the first inside page of the catalog offer for sale a DDC-ready, HO model of the complete Aerotrain, including coaches and the unusual rear-end observation car with its "Chevy Nomad" style of tail-light assembly.  That catalog from those good people at HistoricRail cheered me considerably. I'm probably picking nits, but right now I feel a bit torn between my responsibility as a site contributor to be as informative as possible, and my duty as a site member to obey certain tents of corporate etiquette.  There are a few areas, not a whole lot but some, of overlapping retail competition between our sponsor TRAINS (and its owner Kalmbach Publications) going on and the proprietors of the store/site that issued me such delightful advertising. I'll let the many, many great cyber-Surfers among you to haul the rest of the informational water, if you feel you must, because I feel certain the chore will be speedy.  Perhaps if you feel I've loused up worse than usual and only served to confuse, do carry on.  It's in New Brighton in Minnesota.  By the way, if for any reason you'd like to contact me, please feel free free to PM me or e-mail after you've finished this missive.      

    Opinion, but I feel it should be said, and no condescension is express or implied:  All of you who posted on this thread (except me and I'm sorry):  give yourself a huge pat on the back because everything you said was spot-on, right down to naming the five RR co's, the "preferred customers" to which EMD released the initial trains (trainsets?) back in 1955.  You all contributed different but complementary facts and aspects to the topic, and so the thread cohered into a valid small but entire narrative, what may be a small but surely is also a significant patch of facts.  Now it's been verified by a pre-existing print medium; stores and such concerns are not always adequate to verify or check facts but in this case the co. had every best self-interest to get the details right. 

   Facts, witness, verification in a previously-published medium of communication -- That = History to me and it's a real pleasure to me when it happens on this or any other chat or posting site; it gives me a real Boot! And, I must admit, I think it's great especially when it happens so "efficiently" without interruption or invective; but that's not to say I despise threads that contain incorrect facts or supposition because I think I commit way more than my share of them.  Certainly not my first epiphany but I always get a boot about it!  -   a. s. 

PS:  Sincerely, PM or e-mail if you like.  Also, your own e-mail address gets mine.

[Southwest Chief]

Best one page location for Aerotrain photos is Con-Cor's website.  They're making one in HO scale and they've done a really nice job.  Looks just like the photos of the real thing. 

Here's a link to Con-Cor's Aerotrain Page

Aerotrain 

Since no one has posted any links to what the tail car looks like, I thought these photos would help those who have never seen photos of the real thing.  Although not the real thing, these HO models look spot on to me.

Here's a photo of their Pennsy painted tail car

And here's a general design photo of the tail car:

 

[feltonhill]

Have to amend my previous post re: the PRR Aerotrain ride.  It was March 23, 1957, a Saturday, according to a paper I wrote for 10th grade English class four days later, so I was 15 at the time.  I believe this was near the end of its tenure on PRR. 

The other coments were still accurate after reading this detailed account of the ride and description of the unfinished shell of the tail car.  One added thing that apparently impressed me at the time - the rapid acceleration.  I rode in the first car right behind the locomotive, and you could hear the engine rev up.  Amazing what you can find in a file cabinet!

[al-in-chgo]

Have to amend my previous post re: the PRR Aerotrain ride.  It was March 23, 1957, a Saturday, according to a paper I wrote for 10th grade English class four days later, so I was 15 at the time.  I believe this was near the end of its tenure on PRR. 

The other coments were still accurate after reading this detailed account of the ride and description of the unfinished shell of the tail car.  One added thing that apparently impressed me at the time - the rapid acceleration.  I rode in the first car right behind the locomotive, and you could hear the engine rev up.  Amazing what you can find in a file cabinet! 

Bless you and bless all people who keep their notes and files long-term.  It seems that surprisingly many of my fellow Baby Boomers have made the same kind of mistakes I made beginning thirty years ago:  as a Twentysomething, letting "stuff" slip while moving between rented apartments or relocating for career reasons; later on making way for newer "stuff" while eliminating perhaps too much the older "stuff" -- not to mention how surprised so many parents are when they learn how quickly their children can fill a house -- if only with of "stuff" of their own!      

Would that I had known then what you know now and I am only slowly learning. 

Best, al smalling            

                         "We grown too soon old and too late smart."  -  German proverb. 

 

[spikejones52002]

The Rock Island RR had at least 3 Aerotrains. I would see them intermittently at the corner of 10300 and Vincennes Ave in Chicago about 07:00.

1 and 2 had articulated cars and #3 had (I am sure) a single axle truck front and back of each car but were not articulated.

I was very hard to tell the differance between the two styles. I was riding the city buses to school and did not have the time to really take a detailed look. I remember the shadows bringing  my attention to the different trucks.

[jeffhergert]

The Rock Island only had 2 actual Aerotrains.  Engine nos. 2 and 3 were the original EMD demonstrator sets (EMD 1000 and 1001) while engine no. 1 was ordered from EMD.  RI 2 and 3 also had the Aerotrain cars.      

No. 1 pulled what was called the Jet Rocket and the cars were built by ACF Industries.  They were a different design from the Aerotrain and had a different observation car design.  

The locomotives were designated LWT-1200, 1200 horsepower.  The original EMD engines had a B flexcoil truck while the one ordered by the RI had a Blomberg B truck in the front, while at the rear was a single axle idler.  The diesel engine was a 12-567C.  The units were geared for a top speed of 102 MPH.  There were other slight differences between the 2 demonstrater models and the one ordered so I don't know if they were interchangeable between the EMD and ACF cars.

Jeff    

[spikejones52002]

You may be correct.

I did not count the rivets. All three looked exactly alike.

The only differance I seen was the trucks. As I stated train 1 and 2 had articulated trucks and train 3 had dual trucks.

All of them had Road Island on them. I only had a few seconds to view them. I had no time to look for the builders plate.

[cnwfan51]

   I have a pentrex tape on the Union Pacific Streamliners and the Aerocars were used in passenger servine between L.A. and Las Vegas in the mid to late 1950s as the City Of Las Vega.  But they were so rough riding that they were soon discontinued and regular passenger equipment were used. I have talked to the former head of Passenger Oprations on the Rock Island and their sets were giving them problems from the beginning,  It seems they were so light that they at times would not activate the track side signals    Larry

[Victrola1]

Did a '55 Chevy ride better than the Aerotrain at 70 MPH? The certainly look similar from the rear.

I knew a gentleman, now deceased, who owned an Oldsmobile from that era. He swore it was the best car he ever owned. The mid-50's has been described by some auto enthusiasts as the high water mark of General Motors cars.

Too bad the same can not be said for the Aerotrain.

 

 

[tim o'm]

I don't think this was answered yet, but the Aerotrain at the St. Louis museum also is missing its tail car.

I'm surprised no one has offered to find an old bus body and kitbash it into an "authentic" tail car. This type of wacky project can always find money, but how about finding some for the other, real historic pieces that need attention in Green Bay or other museums?