I have been collecting stuff for my city for a while. I had ideas on how to modify buildings to resemble different places in chicago. My problem i lost the space i was going to build it in. If i am forced to go down to a 6'x8' layout to start out at what should i model. I got way to many ideas to fit in a 6x8 so i need help.
What do you think is nessary to make shure you have the feel of chicago.
thanks for any help
justin
A 6x8 table or an L shape or what? That makes a pretty big difference.
A 6 by 8 table is a fairly big thing. If you add 2 ft. to 3 of its sides, your actual requirement amounts to 10 by 12 ft - that´s quite a lot.
Show us a drawing of your room, this will help us establish how big your space is you can use for a layout and then help you with a track plan for it.
Also, what era? And freight or passenger oriented - That makes a huge difference.
Aim for the southside probably - if you want operational aspects and railfan recognizability, maybe go with Blue Island (right south of Chicago?)
Hi!
I was born and raised in Chicago, leaving when I was 23. We lived by the C&NW "racetrack" on the northwest side, and I spent a lot of time prowling those tracks as a youngster.
As you must know, Chicago back then had 6 stations all in and around downtown, with the IC station (I believe) being the furthest out. No matter where you went in cook county, you were near RR tracks.
I guess you have to answer this question, "are you looking to model the city, a particular railroad, or a combination of railroads, or a particular station or combination of stations?"
There is a lot of possibilities, and I think with your limited space you will have to do some very creative compression and selection.
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
Also, what scale are we talking about?
Many of my recollections/impressions of Chicago are tied to passenger trains. With passenger coaches running 80' or so in length, one would likely have to be speaking of N scale to do much with passenger trains in 6' x 8'. When we used to ride into the city on the Illinois Central's "Land O' Corn" or on the "Hawkeye", we would pass by the Santa Fe's coach yard and wash racks. It seemed to me that the Santa Fe trains with their silver fluted sides always looked so well maintained compared to the coaches of the IC (although chocolate brown and orange looks beautiful on an E-unit).
It would seem that at least some image of a bridge (even if on the backdrop or implied to one side or another) would be helpful in making a setting that "spoke" of Chicago. The huge bascule bridges over the Chicago River and over the waterways down around Calumet were impressive places to see trains. If we're speaking about HO, I recall a magazine article awhile back about the freight line that ran along the north side of the Chicago River to take carloads of paper to the Chicago Tribune building and other places. A decent switching layout could likely be developed out of that line (seems it was C&NW) with lots of opportunity for gritty urban detailing.
Bill
Beach Bill If we're speaking about HO, I recall a magazine article awhile back about the freight line that ran along the north side of the Chicago River to take carloads of paper to the Chicago Tribune building and other places. A decent switching layout could likely be developed out of that line (seems it was C&NW) with lots of opportunity for gritty urban detailing.
If we're speaking about HO, I recall a magazine article awhile back about the freight line that ran along the north side of the Chicago River to take carloads of paper to the Chicago Tribune building and other places. A decent switching layout could likely be developed out of that line (seems it was C&NW) with lots of opportunity for gritty urban detailing.
In its final days, it was actually the opposite of gritty. It was quite clean! I mean, it goes through the nicest part of the city. Or rather, under it. Its an area that fascinated me when I learned about it and saw what was left of it. I've got a few concept ideas for it actually.
I did a sort of freelance attempt at Dearborn Station on a 4' x 12' module.
But, as others have suggested, it makes a big difference if you are talking about HO scale or N scale.
You could also model the PRR crossing the Chicago River on the lift bridge at Alton Junction.
That earlier suggestion to model the bridges at Blue Island is a good one.
Heartland Division CB&Q did a nice job of simulating the CB&Q coach yard south of Union Station.
Or, as mobilman44 suggested, you could model the six passenger stations.
How about the dual bascule bridges at 16th Street?
Give us a better feel for what you are interested in.
Rich
Alton Junction
Sorry if i forgot some things. the orignal idea was going to be in HO. The space i had planed for it was a level in a 12 x 24 room and with n scale on top. All the stuff i have been colecting had been in HO. I had started custom designing some of the chicago bridges and el system with good sucess.
Ever since Kato came out with their Metra train i have been looking into seeing if i can convert the Ho buildings to n scale for more room The jury is still out.
The idea for the 6X8 was what is the max layout size i could start out with if the next place i live is an appartment. Most rooms are 10x10 so my max would have to be a 6x8 with the ability to get to 3 out of the 4 sides.
I am doing modern era in chicago wich is mostly passenger trains. so the best you could do with a 6x8 in ho would be a metra train or subway running below ground and the el above ground.
I just have way to many ideas for my own good. In the past couple of days i figured out how to convert 2 Walthers pier terminal Kits into my version of navy peir. I got all these ideas on how to build downtown but no space to build them.
So my question is what part should i focus on to make an impessive chicago in a limited space. I know if i ever got the space i would expand this layout to make a better chicago.
justinjhnsn3 The idea for the 6X8 was what is the max layout size i could start out with if the next place i live is an appartment. Most rooms are 10x10 so my max would have to be a 6x8 with the ability to get to 3 out of the 4 sides.
Or - you could choose to not make a layout on a big walk-around table, but instead put it on shelves or narrow benchwork put up against the walls.
Allows wider radius curves, modeling just one side of the buildings, better visual separation between scenes, co-existence between layout and other uses of the room, and quite a few other things. Either point to point, or some kind of continuous run capability (pendulum running, swing gate/lift-out, turnback blobs or whatever.
Grin, Stein
HO ISLAND MODELWORKS Chicago "L" Trains on HO MICRO-ENGINEERING City Viaducts. I have ridden on the CTA BLUE LINE from Downtown Chicago to O'HARE INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT. David Briel in Acworth, Georgia
justinjhnsn3 Sorry if i forgot some things. the orignal idea was going to be in HO. The space i had planed for it was a level in a 12 x 24 room and with n scale on top. All the stuff i have been colecting had been in HO. I had started custom designing some of the chicago bridges and el system with good sucess. Ever since Kato came out with their Metra train i have been looking into seeing if i can convert the Ho buildings to n scale for more room The jury is still out. The idea for the 6X8 was what is the max layout size i could start out with if the next place i live is an appartment. Most rooms are 10x10 so my max would have to be a 6x8 with the ability to get to 3 out of the 4 sides. I am doing modern era in chicago wich is mostly passenger trains. so the best you could do with a 6x8 in ho would be a metra train or subway running below ground and the el above ground. I just have way to many ideas for my own good. In the past couple of days i figured out how to convert 2 Walthers pier terminal Kits into my version of navy peir. I got all these ideas on how to build downtown but no space to build them. So my question is what part should i focus on to make an impessive chicago in a limited space. I know if i ever got the space i would expand this layout to make a better chicago.
Justin,
To accomodate all of your interests, you could model the Ogilvie Transportation Center in downtown Chicago where the Metra commuter trains use the former C&NW tracks and facilities. It is right at the corner of Lake and Canal streets, and the elevated mass transit line runs east and west on Lake Street, so that could be part of your layout. The Chicago River is just to the east of the Ogilvie Transportation Center for added interest. Just north of Lake Street is Kinzie Street and the bridges that span the Chicago River. With just a little selective compression, Navy Pier is just a few blocks east of the Ogilvie Transportation Center. You could do justice to all of these points of interest on a 6' x8' layout.
Just some thoughts to stir your imagination.
Here is a link to the old railroad bascule bridge on Kinzie:
http://www.historicbridges.org/bridges/browser/?bridgebrowser=truss/nbrail/
steinjr justinjhnsn3: The idea for the 6X8 was what is the max layout size i could start out with if the next place i live is an appartment. Most rooms are 10x10 so my max would have to be a 6x8 with the ability to get to 3 out of the 4 sides. Or - you could choose to not make a layout on a big walk-around table, but instead put it on shelves or narrow benchwork put up against the walls. Allows wider radius curves, modeling just one side of the buildings, better visual separation between scenes, co-existence between layout and other uses of the room, and quite a few other things. Either point to point, or some kind of continuous run capability (pendulum running, swing gate/lift-out, turnback blobs or whatever. Grin, Stein
justinjhnsn3: The idea for the 6X8 was what is the max layout size i could start out with if the next place i live is an appartment. Most rooms are 10x10 so my max would have to be a 6x8 with the ability to get to 3 out of the 4 sides.
I have explored that thought. To get the feal of a city like chicago you need atleast 3 feet wide shelves. That was based on everything in HO. Thats what i was plaining but i can not do 3 foot shelves any more.
richhotrain justinjhnsn3: Sorry if i forgot some things. the orignal idea was going to be in HO. The space i had planed for it was a level in a 12 x 24 room and with n scale on top. All the stuff i have been colecting had been in HO. I had started custom designing some of the chicago bridges and el system with good sucess. Ever since Kato came out with their Metra train i have been looking into seeing if i can convert the Ho buildings to n scale for more room The jury is still out. The idea for the 6X8 was what is the max layout size i could start out with if the next place i live is an appartment. Most rooms are 10x10 so my max would have to be a 6x8 with the ability to get to 3 out of the 4 sides. I am doing modern era in chicago wich is mostly passenger trains. so the best you could do with a 6x8 in ho would be a metra train or subway running below ground and the el above ground. I just have way to many ideas for my own good. In the past couple of days i figured out how to convert 2 Walthers pier terminal Kits into my version of navy peir. I got all these ideas on how to build downtown but no space to build them. So my question is what part should i focus on to make an impessive chicago in a limited space. I know if i ever got the space i would expand this layout to make a better chicago. Justin, To accomodate all of your interests, you could model the Ogilvie Transportation Center in downtown Chicago where the Metra commuter trains use the former C&NW tracks and facilities. It is right at the corner of Lake and Canal streets, and the elevated mass transit line runs east and west on Lake Street, so that could be part of your layout. The Chicago River is just to the east of the Ogilvie Transportation Center for added interest. Just north of Lake Street is Kinzie Street and the bridges that span the Chicago River. With just a little selective compression, Navy Pier is just a few blocks east of the Ogilvie Transportation Center. You could do justice to all of these points of interest on a 6' x8' layout. Just some thoughts to stir your imagination. Rich
justinjhnsn3: Sorry if i forgot some things. the orignal idea was going to be in HO. The space i had planed for it was a level in a 12 x 24 room and with n scale on top. All the stuff i have been colecting had been in HO. I had started custom designing some of the chicago bridges and el system with good sucess. Ever since Kato came out with their Metra train i have been looking into seeing if i can convert the Ho buildings to n scale for more room The jury is still out. The idea for the 6X8 was what is the max layout size i could start out with if the next place i live is an appartment. Most rooms are 10x10 so my max would have to be a 6x8 with the ability to get to 3 out of the 4 sides. I am doing modern era in chicago wich is mostly passenger trains. so the best you could do with a 6x8 in ho would be a metra train or subway running below ground and the el above ground. I just have way to many ideas for my own good. In the past couple of days i figured out how to convert 2 Walthers pier terminal Kits into my version of navy peir. I got all these ideas on how to build downtown but no space to build them. So my question is what part should i focus on to make an impessive chicago in a limited space. I know if i ever got the space i would expand this layout to make a better chicago.
I accually had Ogilvie Transportation center planned out before i lost the space. I might have thought to big when i planned it thou. I got it almost perfect. that was going to be the main attraction on the layout. That side of the river had the longest side of the basement 24ft long. In Ho to do it justice you need it 3 ft wide. At three feet wide you get 3-5 tracks of the transportation center and everything to the river compressed. To get the tracks looking (uper and lower) right for the transportation area i use about 3/4 of the of the 24ft. I could of been to much of a perfectionist in my planing thou.
justinjhnsn3 I have been collecting stuff for my city for a while. I had ideas on how to modify buildings to resemble different places in chicago. My problem i lost the space i was going to build it in. If i am forced to go down to a 6'x8' layout to start out at what should i model. I got way to many ideas to fit in a 6x8 so i need help. What do you think is nessary to make shure you have the feel of chicago. thanks for any help justin
you can do it on 2x4 modules, which is what I am doing. But I am taking artistic modeling liberties to fit everything in. One time I drew up about a 4x6 layout just on the CTA.
Theres plenty of action to try to model around chicago, I decided to focus on the South Water area where they have a freight terminal. Important train point origination, instead of your often used hidden staging track to create trains this is a good on-layout train creation spot.
Decide where what you would like to model and tinker a few plans out.
To get the feel of Chicago, you need the details that distinguish Chicago from other cities. Some examples include
Green and white street lights; street lights are never attached to utility poles. Traffic lights are green as well.
CTA bus stop signs; either green and white or blue and white.
Light blue city trucks and the correct buses (red/cream, green/white, or white with red/blue stripes, depending on your era).
Bars with beer signs. Usually this would be the logo plus the name; i.e. "Old Style" and the name of the bar.
Local retail stores, like Walgreens and Jewel (or Jewel-Osco after 1965).
Railroads on embankments with plate girder overpasses or concrete overpasses. Low plate girder overpasses were built first, followed by concrete overpasses (usually farther out). Current overpasses are through plate girder bridges.
Billboards for local companies. A billboard like "Get the Polk Bros. Price" establishes your era. Also billboards for political candidates. Local media outlets are hyper competitive; you could have a billboard likk "Chicago Tribune - STILL The World's Greatest Newspaper".
Have a little fun. Billboards like "Slats Grobnik for County Commissioner" or "Chicago Teachers Union congratulates the World Champion Chicago Cubs" show a sense of humor.
justinjhnsn3 I have explored that thought. To get the feal of a city like chicago you need atleast 3 feet wide shelves. That was based on everything in HO. Thats what i was plaining but i can not do 3 foot shelves any more.
Like Jon Grants excellent "Sweethome Chicago" layout, which is 18" deep?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seloMSKlCOU
http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/showgallery.php/cat/1580
But be that as it may - I wish you luck with your "plains".
justinjhnsn3 I accually had Ogilvie Transportation center planned out before i lost the space. I might have thought to big when i planned it thou. I got it almost perfect. that was going to be the main attraction on the layout. That side of the river had the longest side of the basement 24ft long. In Ho to do it justice you need it 3 ft wide. At three feet wide you get 3-5 tracks of the transportation center and everything to the river compressed. To get the tracks looking (uper and lower) right for the transportation area i use about 3/4 of the of the 24ft. I could of been to much of a perfectionist in my planing thou.
Don't let the size limitations of your layout room discourage you. You say "to do it justice", and I understand what you mean, but selective compression can still work wonders.
If modeling a portion of Chicago is what you want, then do it. Even if you can only fit one or two landmark structures in your space, you can work magic with backdrops.
Go for it.
Hi again,
In my earlier post the "Chicago" I was referring to was the town of the '50s and '60s. Sounds like you are looking at modern times. In that case - the RR infrastructure of the City is a whole different ball game.
You could put models of the Blues Brothers in front of some palm trees, and people would still say, "Chicago."
Seriously, I would go with the El concept, too. Of course, in the interest of full disclosure, I do subways so there's some bias to my suggestion. However, this kind of tight, urban modeling gives you the opportunity to build very "dense" scenery, so you won't run out of space very quickly. Later, when you get more space, this can be the core of a larger layout.
Subways and El trains are naturally bi-directional, so they lend themselves to smaller spaces where the issues of turning trains can be a problem. They are also better suited to tight-radius curves, another plus on smaller layouts.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Now, if someone wants to model something a bit odd..how about this little wonder?
A prototype figure 8 track near Chicago in Cook County, Ill.
http://cs.trains.com/TRCCS/forums/t/192312.aspx?PageIndex=1
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
blownout cylinder Now, if someone wants to model something a bit odd..how about this little wonder? A prototype figure 8 track near Chicago in Cook County, Ill. http://cs.trains.com/TRCCS/forums/t/192312.aspx?PageIndex=1
LOL
We need to solve that mystery for you, BC, so we can put your mind to rest.
richhotrain blownout cylinder: Now, if someone wants to model something a bit odd..how about this little wonder? A prototype figure 8 track near Chicago in Cook County, Ill. http://cs.trains.com/TRCCS/forums/t/192312.aspx?PageIndex=1 LOL We need to solve that mystery for you, BC, so we can put your mind to rest. Rich
blownout cylinder: Now, if someone wants to model something a bit odd..how about this little wonder? A prototype figure 8 track near Chicago in Cook County, Ill. http://cs.trains.com/TRCCS/forums/t/192312.aspx?PageIndex=1
BC,
Maybe it is a predecessor to the Fermi Lab particle accelerator, the so-called "race track".
Who knew that the U.S. was that far ahead in the field of high energy physics?
Thanks to you and your pioneering efforts, BC, we now know, and we owe you a debt of gratitude.
From someone who, admittedly, knows nothing about Chicago:
Wrigley Field?
Now, ask me about Tokyo...
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
tomikawaTT From someone who, admittedly, knows nothing about Chicago: Wrigley Field? Now, ask me about Tokyo... Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Wrigley Field is certainly an interesting landmark and the CTA elevated trains are nearby, visible from the stands in fact. But, there are no railroad tracks nearby.
So, on a layout of the size contemplated here, Wrigley Field wouldn't work.
Now, tell us about Tokyo.
richhotrain tomikawaTT: Now, ask me about Tokyo... Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964) Wrigley Field is certainly an interesting landmark and the CTA elevated trains are nearby, visible from the stands in fact. But, there are no railroad tracks nearby. So, on a layout of the size contemplated here, Wrigley Field wouldn't work. Now, tell us about Tokyo. Rich
tomikawaTT: Now, ask me about Tokyo... Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
You could loop the CTA El around the stadium - and just about fill a 6X10 space. And since when are rapid transit tracks NOT railroad tracks.
Chicago has its loop. Granted that it's elevated rapid transit and doesn't carry freight. Tokyo also has a loop - much longer, (mostly) ground level and shared (in various places) with long-distance passenger and freight. The rapid transit cars are heavy rail, and the total traffic density is incredible.
Who says roundy-round running is unprototypical?
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - but not Tokyo!)
tomikawaTT You could loop the CTA El around the stadium - and just about fill a 6X10 space. And since when are rapid transit tracks NOT railroad tracks. Who says roundy-round running is unprototypical?
Yikes, I think we are getting a bit technical here. Ummm, I guess you could call rapid transit tracks "railroad tracks", but you know what I mean, Chuck. The OP would like to model Metra passenger trains as well, and there are no Metra tracks in the immediate vicinity. How's that?
Who says roundy-round running is unprototypical? Gee, I don't know that anyone said that. Who said that? LOL
Hello-
You can view a few photos of my layout of Chicago via this post. The footprint is pretty close to 6x8ft. The length is a little more than 8ft but not by much, I think it scales out to 9ft. In N scale, you can pack a lot of stuff in a small space. Good luck.
http://cs.trains.com/TRCCS/forums/t/195416.aspx