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Contractors Want An Additional $1B - Admit California Line Will Not Open in 2030

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Posted by Former Car Maintainer on Thursday, October 14, 2021 3:45 PM

BaltACD

HSR has the POTENTIAL to serve to a useful purpose when it is completed.

Potential inferring a ban of the automobile and commercial aircraft ? HSR= Government funded interurban

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Posted by zugmann on Thursday, October 14, 2021 5:10 PM

Former Car Maintainer
Potential inferring a ban of the automobile and commercial aircraft ? HSR= Government funded interurban

I mean, the gov't has been funding the automobile and airline sectors for decades...

   The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer or any other railroad, company, or person.

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Posted by York1 on Thursday, October 14, 2021 5:35 PM

BaltACD
Italy's HSR network is being credited to driving the Italian national airline Alitalia into bankruptcy.

High speed trains have played a part.

But Alitalia hasn't had a profit since 2002.  They had a large, inefficient management setup, along with almost no profitable international flights, and even worse, their local flights were losing to two smaller Italian airlines between cities.

 

I have no problem with California setting up a HSR system.  They obviously have issues with the way the contracts were let, the way the plans were drawn, and the way the project has been handled by the state.

 

I don't care what your religion or political beliefs are.  Just use your turn signal.

York1 John       

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Posted by NKP guy on Thursday, October 14, 2021 6:22 PM

Former Car Maintainer
and serve no useful purpose....

   In all sincerity I have to ask:  1.  How do you expect the transportation needs of Californians to be met in the short and long term future?  2.  So it's OK with you if decades of engineering work and expensive studies are to be counted simply as wasted money and thrown into the trash can?  3.  How often do you drive I-5 and/or US 101? 

                                                * * * * *

   And from what I can see, those pyramids are still paying off handsomely for Egypt and her people.  Quite a return on investment!

 

   

  

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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, October 14, 2021 7:11 PM

Former Car Maintainer
 
BaltACD

HSR has the POTENTIAL to serve to a useful purpose when it is completed. 

Potential inferring a ban of the automobile and commercial aircraft ? HSR= Government funded interurban

How many lanes wide should California Interstates be expanded to to be able to handle all the non-carbon based vehicles that will be operating in the future - 5 lanes each way, 10 lanes each way, 20 lanes each way.  Should they just pave a 1/2 mile wide swath of land - without lane lines so they don't impede anyone's 'freedom' and operate it as rolling helter skelter.

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Posted by York1 on Thursday, October 14, 2021 7:25 PM

California's population went down over 180,000 last year.  Maybe they won't need more lanes.

I don't care what your religion or political beliefs are.  Just use your turn signal.

York1 John       

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Posted by Former Car Maintainer on Thursday, October 14, 2021 7:45 PM

NKP guy

    How often do you drive I-5 and/or US 101?                    

   And from what I can see, those pyramids are still paying off handsomely for Egypt and her people.  Quite a return on investment!

Easier to fly than to drive I-5, and like the pyramids, the HSR might make a good tourist attraction

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Posted by Former Car Maintainer on Thursday, October 14, 2021 7:53 PM

BaltACD

How many lanes wide should California Interstates be expanded to to be able to handle all the non-carbon based vehicles that will be operating in the future - 5 lanes each way, 10 lanes each way, 20 lanes each way.  Should they just pave a 1/2 mile wide swath of land - without lane lines so they don't impede anyone's 'freedom' and operate it as rolling helter skelter.

The current capacity of I-5 is not maxed. Why? 49 minute flights from SFO to LAX. Will non carbon cars change the equation? The drive time will still be the same 6 hrs with the possible increase of stopping to charge along the way...

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Posted by Former Car Maintainer on Thursday, October 14, 2021 8:09 PM

NKP guy

  So it's OK with you if decades of engineering work and expensive studies are to be counted simply as wasted money 

Problem: We've wasted money....Solution:Waste some more

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Posted by MidlandMike on Thursday, October 14, 2021 8:46 PM

Former Car Maintainer

 

 
BaltACD

Were the Egyptian pyramids completed 'On Time and Under Budget'?

 

 

 

Good analogy: Both pyramid and HSR were envisioned by political demagogues, built as a tribute to themselves, and serve no useful purpose....

 

The vote to spend the funds to build California's HSR was passed by a majority of the state's voters.  Are you also as contemptuous toward the citizens as their elected officials?

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Posted by York1 on Thursday, October 14, 2021 9:44 PM

MidlandMike
The vote to spend the funds to build California's HSR was passed by a majority of the state's voters.  Are you also as contemptuous toward the citizens as their elected officials?

 

California voters approved $9 billion in 2008.

California voters were promised before the vote that the entire 800 mile HSR system (including extensions to San Diego and Sacramento) would cost $40 billion, and their share would be the $9 billion.

California voters were promised before the vote that the first trains would be running by 2020.

I don't care what your religion or political beliefs are.  Just use your turn signal.

York1 John       

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Posted by Former Car Maintainer on Thursday, October 14, 2021 10:27 PM

MidlandMike

The vote to spend the funds to build California's HSR was passed by a majority of the state's voters.  

HSR seed money came from the "TARP" funds just like the failed "SOLYNDRA". I'm sure the citizens of the State will gladly stomach additional "HSR tax increases" as well as receiving federal handouts from "Joe likes to ride trains" infrastructure money. The question remains, will people prefer the 49 minute flight or will they take a three hour train ride? Perhaps a train mandate is in the cards...

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Friday, October 15, 2021 6:20 PM

This is supposed to be a forum about passenger trains, which include HSR. But every time there is a post about HSR, we get a chorus of right wing political posts condemning modern trains. We all get it,. You hate the government, hate HSR. Post if you have a constructive comment.

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Posted by Shadow the Cats owner on Friday, October 15, 2021 7:15 PM

Charlie it could also be the simplest reason also.  Perhaps people are tired of seeing the government whip out their credit card and forgetting how to do math.  No one I work with Republicans or Democrat alike believe that the proposed 3.5 trillion dollar spending plan is going to add zero to the freaking federal government debt load.  That is the current administration claim to generate support for it from the people.  Sorry but 3,500,000,000,000 is not equal or less than 0 in any form of math I can tell except government spending plans. 

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Posted by York1 on Friday, October 15, 2021 7:29 PM

charlie hebdo
This is supposed to be a forum about passenger trains, which include HSR. But every time there is a post about HSR, we get a chorus of right wing political posts condemning modern trains. We all get it,. You hate the government, hate HSR. Post if you have a constructive comment.

 

 

"This is supposed to be a forum about passenger trains, which include HSR."

The title of this thread is, "Contractors Want An Additional $1B - Admit California Line Will Not Open in 2030".

It seems that the posts I've read are all on point.  From that, you get that the posts show hatred of the government and hatred of HSR.

Constructive comments?

I didn't realize that all the comments were supposed to be cheerleading.

I don't care what your religion or political beliefs are.  Just use your turn signal.

York1 John       

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Posted by Former Car Maintainer on Friday, October 15, 2021 7:46 PM

charlie hebdo

This is supposed to be a forum about passenger trains, which include HSR. But every time there is a post about HSR, we get a chorus of right wing political posts condemning modern trains. We all get it,. You hate the government, hate HSR. Post if you have a constructive comment.

 

One needs to look back at the demise of the interurban in the 1930's to see if the root cause for the demise still exist. If so, the same root causes will weigh on the HSR. Not right, Not left, just fact...

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Friday, October 15, 2021 8:16 PM

Constructive criticism does not mean cheerleading. It also doesn't mean what you and the carman do.

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Posted by York1 on Friday, October 15, 2021 8:55 PM

charlie hebdo
Constructive criticism does not mean cheerleading. It also doesn't mean what you and the carman do.

 

I'm a little confused here (which for me is not unusual).

I just read through my posts, and I can't find anything that is "right wing political", or "condemning modern trains".

I don't "hate the government" or "hate HSR".

In fact, back in the early 2000s, I was excited to read that California was going to build this system.

Since then, the HSR system they are constructing has been so mishandled, they have probably, at least in the near future, hindered any further HSR systems in the U.S. from being proposed.

There's a good possibility I'm wrong, and California's system will go forward without any more major cost overruns, engineering mistakes, major delays, etc.  Maybe in a couple of years, there will be a very nice system that takes riders from LA to SF at over 200 mph.  Unfortunately (for me), I will probably be dead before that happens.

I don't care what your religion or political beliefs are.  Just use your turn signal.

York1 John       

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Posted by MidlandMike on Friday, October 15, 2021 9:53 PM

York1

 

 
MidlandMike
The vote to spend the funds to build California's HSR was passed by a majority of the state's voters.  Are you also as contemptuous toward the citizens as their elected officials?

 

 

California voters approved $9 billion in 2008.

California voters were promised before the vote that the entire 800 mile HSR system (including extensions to San Diego and Sacramento) would cost $40 billion, and their share would be the $9 billion.

California voters were promised before the vote that the first trains would be running by 2020.

 

Maybe the voters are more understanding.  Have they voted to end or revise the project yet?

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Posted by MidlandMike on Friday, October 15, 2021 9:57 PM

Former Car Maintainer

 

 
MidlandMike

The vote to spend the funds to build California's HSR was passed by a majority of the state's voters.  

 

 

HSR seed money came from the "TARP" funds just like the failed "SOLYNDRA". I'm sure the citizens of the State will gladly stomach additional "HSR tax increases" as well as receiving federal handouts from "Joe likes to ride trains" infrastructure money. The question remains, will people prefer the 49 minute flight or will they take a three hour train ride? Perhaps a train mandate is in the cards...

 

 

Didn't the voters know they were voting for a train ride?

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Posted by Former Car Maintainer on Friday, October 15, 2021 10:05 PM
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Posted by York1 on Friday, October 15, 2021 10:06 PM

MidlandMike
York1
MidlandMike
The vote to spend the funds to build California's HSR was passed by a majority of the state's voters.  Are you also as contemptuous toward the citizens as their elected officials?  

California voters approved $9 billion in 2008.

California voters were promised before the vote that the entire 800 mile HSR system (including extensions to San Diego and Sacramento) would cost $40 billion, and their share would be the $9 billion.

California voters were promised before the vote that the first trains would be running by 2020.

 

Maybe the voters are more understanding.  Have they voted to end or revise the project yet?

 

I would guess that some of the voters are more understanding.  The rest are moving out of the state.

 

I don't care what your religion or political beliefs are.  Just use your turn signal.

York1 John       

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Posted by BaltACD on Friday, October 15, 2021 10:31 PM

York1
 
MidlandMike
York1
MidlandMike
The vote to spend the funds to build California's HSR was passed by a majority of the state's voters.  Are you also as contemptuous toward the citizens as their elected officials?  

California voters approved $9 billion in 2008.

California voters were promised before the vote that the entire 800 mile HSR system (including extensions to San Diego and Sacramento) would cost $40 billion, and their share would be the $9 billion.

California voters were promised before the vote that the first trains would be running by 2020. 

Maybe the voters are more understanding.  Have they voted to end or revise the project yet? 

I would guess that some of the voters are more understanding.  The rest are moving out of the state.

Have the moving Californians squeezed you out of flyover country yet?

Zero taxes is out of range for us 'wage earners'; we need to be multi-billionaires to reach that tax bracket.

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Posted by groundeffects on Friday, October 15, 2021 10:43 PM

You may think this a "right wing political post" or something else, but the fact is that the Democratic Party controlled California state legislature didn't even think enough of HSR this year to send Governor Newsom a bill to sign approving more HSR spending (4.2 billion).  Many legislative leaders on both sides of the aisle would prefer any money spent for HSR to instead go toward local commuter rail service.  This is not opinion, this is fact.

As a native born California resident, we have to pay some of the highest state taxes found anywhere in the country.  We have the highest state income tax, the highest sales tax AND the highest state gas tax (66.98 cents per gallon.  We have state legislators and other "politicians" that can't balance a budget, so the result is always more taxes that are approved by a certain party's supermajority.  The result is families and businesses leaving in droves. My wife and I are tired of paying these endless taxes, and are planning to leave this state when we retire.  Until then, we will continue to pay taxes for a train that likely won't run LA to SF for another 20 years.

For political reasons, the HSR line was started in the central valley.  Maybe the legislators in Sacramento should have walked from the state capitol a mile over to the California State Railroad Museum to learn some history from the "Big Four".  Other than political reasons, does starting a railroad in the middle of California's central valley (away from any of California's major metropolitan areas) make any sense?  Perhaps if the railroad was started in either LA or SF, more people might have supported the additional funds needed for HSR.  I think I would have.

You can support this project or not.  But don't denigrate those of us in California that have to pay for this boondoggle.

Jeff

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Posted by BaltACD on Friday, October 15, 2021 11:47 PM

groundeffects
...

You can support this project or not.  But don't denigrate those of us in California that have to pay for this boondoggle.

Jeff

Remember - to somebody - EVERY government supported project is a BOONDOGGLE!

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Posted by groundeffects on Friday, October 15, 2021 11:58 PM

True, but some projects are more "pork/boondoggle" than others......

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Posted by rdamon on Saturday, October 16, 2021 7:19 PM

The 105 Freeway in LA took around 25 years to complete about 19 miles, why should this be different.

 

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Posted by NKP guy on Saturday, October 16, 2021 7:23 PM

rdamon

The 105 Freeway in LA took around 25 years to complete about 19 miles, why should this be different.

 

 

 

Well said.

 

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Posted by BaltACD on Saturday, October 16, 2021 8:36 PM

groundeffects
True, but some projects are more "pork/boondoggle" than others......

It is only a boondoggle if you are not the beneficiary of the pork.

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Posted by MidlandMike on Saturday, October 16, 2021 9:28 PM

York1
I would guess that some of the voters are more understanding.  The rest are moving out of the state.  

Californians moved out of state first to Arizona, and now they are proposing HrSR Tucson-Pheonix-LA.  Then they moved to Nevada, and now Brightline is putting together Xpress HSR.  Now they are moving to Idaho, is there a Boise Bullet in the furure?

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