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HMS Rocket's Crest

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HMS Rocket's Crest
Posted by BEAUSABRE on Friday, October 29, 2021 5:24 PM

When a ship is commissioned into Britain's Royal Navy, she is awarded a crest by Royal Warrant. It is displayed on the quarterdeck and the officers', petty officers' and crews' messes to encourage morale and a feeling of belonging. I was checking out the WW2 destroyer HMS Rocket and thought her crest would show a skyrocket. I was in for a surprise. Looks like one of the Heralds or Pursuivants at Arms was a railfan. 

ad2135d304c698222f9cb2eb6025e113.jpg (340×450) (pinimg.com)

College of Arms - Wikipedia

 

 

 

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Posted by 7j43k on Friday, October 29, 2021 7:42 PM

Oh.  THAT Rocket.

There must have been a lot of inter-ship humor regarding the name.

 

 

Ed

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Posted by M636C on Friday, October 29, 2021 7:43 PM

While not directly related, some years ago I was given a tour of inspection of a French Destroyer. I've forgotten most of the details, but as we were shown the engine room, I noticed that it had two Rolls Royce Olympus gas turbines as the main engines. On a notice board in the engine room, someone had drawn a recognisable image of Robert Stephenson's "Rocket", substituting the arch shaped casing of the Olympus for the "Rocket" boiler. I assumed this was a suggestion that the Olympus wasn't exactly the latest technology...

Peter

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Posted by jeffhergert on Saturday, October 30, 2021 12:59 AM
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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Saturday, October 30, 2021 10:00 AM

jeffhergert

 
Rather interesting when you consider that the Submarine Service is the one place where steam has replaced diesel.
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Posted by Flintlock76 on Saturday, October 30, 2021 10:13 AM

CSSHEGEWISCH

 

 
jeffhergert

 

 
Rather interesting when you consider that the Submarine Service is the one place where steam has replaced diesel.
 

Do you suppose that instead of "Full speed ahead!" the captain orders "Highball it!"  

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, October 31, 2021 9:06 AM

jeffhergert
USS Scranton's logo.

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, October 31, 2021 9:15 AM

M636C
I assumed this was a suggestion that the Olympus wasn't exactly the latest technology...

Since that was the Concorde powerplant, I think it's more likely the humor was in its being not 'soaring with the eagles' but shackled to a primitive environment...

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Posted by M636C on Monday, November 1, 2021 6:41 AM

Overmod

 

 
M636C
I assumed this was a suggestion that the Olympus wasn't exactly the latest technology...

 

Since that was the Concorde powerplant, I think it's more likely the humor was in its being not 'soaring with the eagles' but shackled to a primitive environment...

 

 

 

The visit was around the year 2000.

I'm pretty sure that the ship was a Georges Leygues class, possibly La Motte-Picquet D 645. These were built over a fourteen year period from 1974 until 1988, so in 2000 must have seemed old to their crews. I still thinkthat it was a suggestion of elderly English equipment...

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, November 1, 2021 8:08 AM

The marine Olympus was one of those Stan 'Not Much of an Engineer' Hooker projects, as I recall, and the design is still good, probably as good as more modern designs for intended purposes.  I think the Leygues class got more out of this engine than most, perhaps any other ships that used it (28,000-odd shp)

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Posted by M636C on Tuesday, November 2, 2021 12:30 AM

Overmod

The marine Olympus was one of those Stan 'Not Much of an Engineer' Hooker projects, as I recall, and the design is still good, probably as good as more modern designs for intended purposes.  I think the Leygues class got more out of this engine than most, perhaps any other ships that used it (28,000-odd shp)

 

I wasn't suggesting that the Olympus was not an excellent power unit, particularly for its time. But the French Navy uses very little imported equipment, and the fact that the Olympus was British might have drawn attention to it. The fact that the locomotive drawing was of the Rocket and not an early French locomotive seemed relevant. Janes Fighting Ships indicates that the Georges Leygues could make 30 knots on the two Olympus, but could make 21 knots on the two Pielstick 18 PA6 280 diesels (basically big locomotive diesels.) This meant that the turbines could be used only when high speed was needed, with a good result for fuel economy. I think the Georges Leygues had a range of 8500 nautical miles at 18 knots on diesels. I spent some time arond 2000 looking at propulsion options for Destroyers. I remember that HMAS ANZAC could make 23 knots on diesels when brand new in 1999 (I read the numbers off the GPS display myself) but they can't make 18 knots now, after years of adding extra equipment. The turbines were always running when berthing because the quick response of the turbine compared to the diesels was seen as useful in avoiding undesired impacts.

Peter

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, November 2, 2021 10:06 AM

M636C
the French Navy uses very little imported equipment, and the fact that the Olympus was British might have drawn attention to it.

But the marine Olympus was nearly coeval (in service) with the introduction of the Bristol Siddeley (or whatever it was called in '66) collaboration with SNECMA on the 593 'big' version of the engine for use in Concorde.  So arguably there was a 'French connection' there... whether the French felt slighted somehow in that partnership, I can't say, but it does occur to me they could have arranged for a SNECMA-badged marine version with very little effort...

The fact that the locomotive drawing was of the Rocket and not an early French locomotive seemed relevant.

Of course the Rocket represents pioneering innovation in its field... whether or not we consider the multitubular boiler to have been ripped off from Seguin... and it's interesting to consider the performance of an Olympus-powered 2-2-0 even if the permanent way might experience some rapid unintended mechanical abridgement, as the French did after the high-speed electric tests in 1955...

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Posted by wjstix on Wednesday, November 3, 2021 2:54 PM

BEAUSABRE
Looks like one of the Heralds or Pursuivants at Arms was a railfan.

More likely the Royal Navy went to them and said "we're naming this ship after Stephenson's "Rocket", could you lads come up with a suitable herald?"

Plus they're British so they'd be "railway enthusiasts" not "railfans".

Wink

BTW British Rail's Class 41 diesels builit by North British Locomotive in the late 1950's were called the "Warship Class" as all the engines were named after Royal Navy ships.

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Posted by M636C on Wednesday, November 3, 2021 8:53 PM

wjstix

 

 
BEAUSABRE
Looks like one of the Heralds or Pursuivants at Arms was a railfan.

 

More likely the Royal Navy went to them and said "we're naming this ship after Stephenson's "Rocket", could you lads come up with a suitable herald?"

Plus they're British so they'd be "railway enthusiasts" not "railfans".

Wink

BTW British Rail's Class 41 diesels builit by North British Locomotive in the late 1950's were called the "Warship Class" as all the engines were named after Royal Navy ships.

 

There were three classes of Westtern Region diesel hydraulic locomotives named after Warships, the NBL Class 41 as described, the Swindon Class 42 and the NBL Class 43 (which were built to the Swindon design) Apart from the first three class 42 locomotives, the first of which was named after a general, Sir Brian Robertson, the chairman of the Britich Transport Commission, then Vanguard and Formidable they were in Alphabetical order starting with the first Class 41 (Active), although the 42s added some further A,B and C names at the top of the list.

There were a total of 75 locomotives of classes 41, 42 and 43, All but D800 named after warships.. An additional batch of five class 42s were built after the names were allocated, so they were named Zebra, Zenith, Zephyr Zest and Zulu...

However Rocket was not used as a locomotive name. The LNWR and the LMS later named locomotives after pioneering locomotives, including all the Rainhill trial competitors except Rocket. Posibly this was because the original Rocket still existed and the name was regarded as taken.

Many warship names were reused on class 50 locomotives after withdrawal of the diesel hydraulics, and some are curently in use on Class 68 locomotives.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Thursday, November 4, 2021 10:02 AM

M636C

Many warship names were reused on class 50 locomotives after withdrawal of the diesel hydraulics, and some are curently in use on Class 68 locomotives.

Peter

 
Not that different from the practice of several navies where the same name has been reused multiple times.  The battle stars given to a given ship go with the name to the next ship.
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Posted by 54light15 on Thursday, November 4, 2021 2:58 PM

Hmm- I wonder how many battle stars the USS Enterprise, NCC 1701 would have? 

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Saturday, November 6, 2021 10:03 AM

54light15

Hmm- I wonder how many battle stars the USS Enterprise, NCC 1701 would have? 

 
Starfleet is not the United States Navy.
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Posted by 54light15 on Sunday, November 7, 2021 6:52 PM

One could argue but one won't. Drinks

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Posted by M636C on Thursday, November 11, 2021 6:29 AM

 

 
54light15

Hmm- I wonder how many battle stars the USS Enterprise, NCC 1701 would have? 

 

 

 
Starfleet is not the United States Navy.
 

 

In the Star Trek series, "Starfleet" uses US Navy ranks.The Royal Navy, for example does not have the rank "Ensign"... While this could be expected in a TV series made in the USA, it could be taken to imply a relaionship between the USN and Starfleet.

While battle honours pass between ships of the same name in a given navy, they also pass between navies with the ship if the name is retained. One example of honours passing to a ship with the same name is HMS Invincible. I noticed that the most recent ship of the name carried honours for "Falkland Islands 1914" and Falkland Islands 1982".

The Royal Australian Navy has taken over ships from the Royal Navy and in some cases retained the name. In these cases the battle honurs from the RN were retained. For some reason, this does not appear to have occurred with ANZAC, which served as an RN ship during WWI, and those honours don't appear to have been carried by susequent RAN ships of the name.

However, perhaps stretching a point, it is possible that if Starfleet was regarded as a successor to or offshoot  of the USN, that honours would have been carried over.

In the case of Enterprise, I understand CV 6 had twenty battle stars (from perhaps being in the wrong place rather too too often - Pearl Harbor, Doolittle Raid, Midway...) while CVN 65 had around forty battle stars, to which presumably can be added any honours from previous or subsequent ships named Enterprise...

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Friday, November 12, 2021 10:18 AM

Many of the battle stars may have come from previous ships, CV-6 was the seventh ship of the United States Navy to bear the name "Enterprise".

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Friday, November 12, 2021 2:39 PM

"Enterprise" is a popular ships name.  I remember a Western-themed TV series from around 1960 called "Riverboat." 

The riverboat's name?  Enterprise! 

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Posted by wjstix on Monday, November 15, 2021 1:24 PM

There were also 15 Royal Navy ships named "Enterprise", one of which was captured during the American Revolution and became the US Navy's first "Enterprise".

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Posted by M636C on Tuesday, November 16, 2021 3:25 AM

wjstix

There were also 15 Royal Navy ships named "Enterprise", one of which was captured during the American Revolution and became the US Navy's first "Enterprise".

 

The last major warship named Enterprise in the Royal Navy was a large cruiser.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Enterprise_(D52)

During the 1930s, as a ship based in a warm climate, (the East Indies station) it was painted white with buff funnels, like the US "Great White Fleet" of 1908. A photo of it transporting Haile Selassie to Palestine shows it to advantage:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Enterprise_(D52)#/media/File:HMS_Enterprise_1936_LOC_matpc_20226.jpg

More recent ships named Enterprise have been survey ships, with  sister ships appropriately named Echo...

Peter

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, December 6, 2021 7:40 AM

At one time, possibly today, the "Enreprise Service" for Belfast - Dublin expressd trains?

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Posted by wjstix on Tuesday, December 7, 2021 1:42 PM

FWIW Enterprise Rent-a-Car is named after the WW2 aircraft carrier that the company founder served on as a pilot during WW2.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_C._Taylor

 

Stix

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