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CP track rights in Cleveland

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CP track rights in Cleveland
Posted by NKP guy on Wednesday, November 3, 2021 7:38 PM

   The December 2021 Trains has on page 5 a map of the new CP - KCS combined system.  This map indicates track rights for CP between Buffalo and Chicago via the south shore of Lake Erie.  Question: Are these rights through Cleveland via the New York Central (CSX) or the Nickel Plate (NS)?  

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Posted by D.Carleton on Wednesday, November 3, 2021 10:21 PM

CP's trackage rights to Buffalo are on CSX.

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Posted by n012944 on Thursday, November 4, 2021 7:15 AM
CP has haulage rights, not trackage rights.

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Posted by MP173 on Thursday, November 4, 2021 8:28 AM

Currently the CP uses the "haulage rights" for two trains the intermodal trains I165 and I166 (CSX symbols).  Those are rather light trains, usually only 100-150 containers and lately have had general freight tacked on the rear of the westbound I165.

CP has some real work to do if they are going to capture all of the Canada/US/Mexico intermodal traffic, if the I165/166 traffic levels are any indication.  CN usually runs very big intermodals into and out of Chicago.

I am currently looking thru the CP KCS 4300 page application...wow, what a term paper.  More comments to follow later.

 

ed

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Posted by D.Carleton on Thursday, November 4, 2021 12:03 PM

n012944
CP has haulage rights, not trackage rights.

I stand corrected and do beg your pardon. Yes, haulage rights.

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Posted by SD70Dude on Thursday, November 4, 2021 6:04 PM

CN could stand to do some catching up themselves, the Chicago-Toronto route isn't exactly our busiest intermodal corridor.  Only one pair of trains run daily, Z148/Z149.

I believe CP's use of CSX south of Lake Erie is to get around the Detroit River tunnel, which still cannot handle full height doublestacks.  

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Posted by cv_acr on Friday, November 5, 2021 10:13 AM

SD70Dude
CN could stand to do some catching up themselves, the Chicago-Toronto route isn't exactly our busiest intermodal corridor.  Only one pair of trains run daily, Z148/Z149.

Sometimes with 146/147 handling overflow container & autorack traffic. But generally 148/149 is the only daily container train to/from Chicago on CN.

Sometimes 120/123 also comes through here but that appears to be exclusively European + middle eastern international import 'cans.

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Posted by SD60MAC9500 on Friday, November 5, 2021 11:50 AM
 

cv_acr

 

 
SD70Dude
CN could stand to do some catching up themselves, the Chicago-Toronto route isn't exactly our busiest intermodal corridor.  Only one pair of trains run daily, Z148/Z149.

 

Sometimes with 146/147 handling overflow container & autorack traffic. But generally 148/149 is the only daily container train to/from Chicago on CN.

Sometimes 120/123 also comes through here but that appears to be exclusively European + middle eastern international import 'cans.

 

 

Are 146/147 even on the timetable anymore? I haven't seen or heard those symbols in almost 20 years..

148/149 use to be Chicago-Halifax/Halifax-Chicago. Then CN terminated those trains in Brampton (Toronto). That traffic then gets sorted for 120/121 from and to Halifax.

 
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Posted by cv_acr on Monday, November 8, 2021 9:07 PM

SD60MAC9500
Are 146/147 even on the timetable anymore? I haven't seen or heard those symbols in almost 20 years.

New in the last year or two. As-required overflow of intermodal and autoracks. Saw a whole bunch of 147s over the summer through southern Ontario, not sure if it's still a thing heading into the winter right now. Usually was about 1/3 IM and 2/3 racks, but that could vary (indeed I've seen it solid loaded intermodal, and one time it was just a solid train of empty wells heading west into the US).

I'm not sure if it just runs between Toronto-Brampton and Chicago, or elsewheres. Just know that I've seen it come through on the Toronto-Chicago main several times.

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