BaltACD tree68 CSSHEGEWISCH Gotta bust those unions, gotta keep the help cheap and docile. Alas, unions do have a place, but all too often they seem to live exclusively by Eugene Debs' exhortation "More!" Fair pay for a days work has two aspects - fair pay, and a day's work. Of course, we must remember that there's a railroad angle to that, as well. One hundred miles is (or was) a day's pay, whether it takes eight hours or two... The 21st Century day, I believe, is at 128 miles. Not all railroading is multiple track, step on and put the throttle in Run 8 and apply the brake at destination. Most runs, with the trains being handled, tie up much closer to their HOS time than they do at 2 hours laughing all the way to the bank. Too many companies view employees as no more than slaves that they are required to pay - if they can keep from paying them, they do. A Labor Agreement is nothing more than stating in writing what is expected of each party of the AGREEMENT. Most friction happens because the company does not want to do what they agreed to do.
tree68 CSSHEGEWISCH Gotta bust those unions, gotta keep the help cheap and docile. Alas, unions do have a place, but all too often they seem to live exclusively by Eugene Debs' exhortation "More!" Fair pay for a days work has two aspects - fair pay, and a day's work. Of course, we must remember that there's a railroad angle to that, as well. One hundred miles is (or was) a day's pay, whether it takes eight hours or two...
CSSHEGEWISCH Gotta bust those unions, gotta keep the help cheap and docile.
Alas, unions do have a place, but all too often they seem to live exclusively by Eugene Debs' exhortation "More!"
Fair pay for a days work has two aspects - fair pay, and a day's work.
Of course, we must remember that there's a railroad angle to that, as well. One hundred miles is (or was) a day's pay, whether it takes eight hours or two...
The 21st Century day, I believe, is at 128 miles. Not all railroading is multiple track, step on and put the throttle in Run 8 and apply the brake at destination. Most runs, with the trains being handled, tie up much closer to their HOS time than they do at 2 hours laughing all the way to the bank.
Too many companies view employees as no more than slaves that they are required to pay - if they can keep from paying them, they do.
A Labor Agreement is nothing more than stating in writing what is expected of each party of the AGREEMENT. Most friction happens because the company does not want to do what they agreed to do.
The current basic day is 130 miles. Locals still use 100 miles. That's a minimum for a day's pay. One hundred (now 130) miles or less, 8 hours or less constitutes a basic day.
Very few runs were or are at the minimum milage. Those at or under start overtime after 8 hours. Those over the milage use a formula, running off miles, to determine when overtime begins. Overtime on my run, calculated at 161 miles begins at 9 hours 55 minutes.
All that defines is what a day, or the most basic day is. It doesn't say what is considered fair pay for that day. That's in other parts of the agreements. (And there will always be those who think the agreed upon rate isn't fair.)
Jeff
Well Jeff, you correctly nailed one in our flock of rightist, anti-labor members. Fortunately their numbers seen here are not representative in the US population.
NittanyLionhe entire model is designed to put their jingle or funny characters in your head. Notice how every single insurance commercial is designed to be associated with something and designed to be memorable? They can't advertise price or feature set, because those aren't duplicative across all customers. So they have one thing can do: beat their funny lizard or weirdo salesperson or chaos demon who destroys everything into your mind so that when you get around to reworking your car insurance in March 2022, you think "I sure do see that emu a lot. I should look at what they have."
Those commericals are probably for people that don't normally have insurance, but have to quickly get it to get their cars out of impound, or to be able to leave the traffic stop. So they need something catchy and memorable.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
Shadow the Cats ownerhttps://news.yahoo.com/lazy-crane-operators-making-250-200100567.html LONG BEACH, California — Crane operators who belong to a powerful union and earn up to $250,000 a year transferring containers from ships to trucks are worseni.. .
Sounds like a bunch of jealous truckers. Why don't they become crane operators?
Kind of funny they cite people that have probably very little clue about operating cranes as some sort of authroity on crane operations.
Hey I saw a truck parked at a dock today. Lazy truckers. Paid for sitting on their butts doing nothing!!!! /s
zugmann Shadow the Cats owner https://news.yahoo.com/lazy-crane-operators-making-250-200100567.html LONG BEACH, California — Crane operators who belong to a powerful union and earn up to $250,000 a year transferring containers from ships to trucks are worseni.. . Sounds like a bunch of jealous truckers. Why don't they become crane operators? Kind of funny they cite people that have probably very little clue about operating cranes as some sort of authroity on crane operations. Hey I saw a truck parked at a dock today. Lazy truckers. Paid for sitting on their butts doing nothing!!!! /s
Shadow the Cats owner https://news.yahoo.com/lazy-crane-operators-making-250-200100567.html LONG BEACH, California — Crane operators who belong to a powerful union and earn up to $250,000 a year transferring containers from ships to trucks are worseni.. .
In my circle of acquaintance are several crane operators. If and when they make a mistake there is either serious financial consequence, death(s) or both. And it doesn't have to be a big mistake. Swinging 40 foot 30+ ton boxes around the waterfront is not for the unskilled, weak of heart or those that can't maintain concentration. So crane operators get paid for their skils and the risks they accept - they have earned it.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
BaltACD In my circle of acquaintance are several crane operators. If and when they make a mistake there is either serious financial consequence, death(s) or both. And it doesn't have to be a big mistake. Swinging 40 foot 30+ ton boxes around the waterfront is not for the unskilled, weak of heart or those that can't maintain concentration. So crane operators get paid for their skils and the risks they accept - they have earned it.
Discussion of COVID is off-topic on this Forum. Multiple posts have been deleted.
Anyone whose posts I deleted who attempts to steer this, or another, thread onto that topic, including to complain about the deletions, will be banned.
--Steven Otte, Model Railroader senior associate editorsotte@kalmbach.com
Euclid The central question with the supply chain crisis seeks an explanation of the cause. Some explanations attempt to boil it down to one central cause, but that often seems too simple to be convincing. However, another approach finds a gigantic collection of causes that just happened to come together at the same time like the so-called “perfect storm.” Here is one of those: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7t5yj1rScI&t=214s This multifaceted cause even includes the Chinese tariffs placed in 1919, and the grounding of the Ever Given container ship in the Suez Canal. It is a highly complex cause that also has a complex solution such as battery powered, autonomous container ships. Common sense says a cause this big will not be solved by a direct action. It will just have to heal naturally with time. But the video does make one point that I find very interesting. It points to the massive cost of idling many dozens of container ships waiting for access to the ports, and it says this cost will have to be passed on to the consumers. Yet while consumers are powerless to prevent this, they do have the power to refuse purchase of items that have been absurdly overpriced to pay for the parked container ships. Therefore, it is unlikely that the cost of stalled container ships will be passed onto the consumer. These costs will be suffered as a loss to the industry. Perhaps these losses will be recouped over time as the shipping industry gradually raises shipping costs at a rate the customer can bear.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Murphy Siding Euclid But the video does make one point that I find very interesting. It points to the massive cost of idling many dozens of container ships waiting for access to the ports, and it says this cost will have to be passed on to the consumers. Yet while consumers are powerless to prevent this, they do have the power to refuse purchase of items that have been absurdly overpriced to pay for the parked container ships. Therefore, it is unlikely that the cost of stalled container ships will be passed onto the consumer. These costs will be suffered as a loss to the industry. Perhaps these losses will be recouped over time as the shipping industry gradually raises shipping costs at a rate the customer can bear. In the end, the cost always gets passed on to the consumer. It's all about supply and demand. You say that American consumers have the power to refuse purchase of items... Yes, technically, but I think most don't have the will to do that. A woman I work with was fretting about constant news stories that "OMG!! there might not be any toys for Christmas this year." (I suggested she just re-wrap the junk from last year. That wasn't the reaction she was looking for).
Euclid But the video does make one point that I find very interesting. It points to the massive cost of idling many dozens of container ships waiting for access to the ports, and it says this cost will have to be passed on to the consumers. Yet while consumers are powerless to prevent this, they do have the power to refuse purchase of items that have been absurdly overpriced to pay for the parked container ships. Therefore, it is unlikely that the cost of stalled container ships will be passed onto the consumer. These costs will be suffered as a loss to the industry. Perhaps these losses will be recouped over time as the shipping industry gradually raises shipping costs at a rate the customer can bear.
In the end, the cost always gets passed on to the consumer. It's all about supply and demand. You say that American consumers have the power to refuse purchase of items... Yes, technically, but I think most don't have the will to do that. A woman I work with was fretting about constant news stories that "OMG!! there might not be any toys for Christmas this year." (I suggested she just re-wrap the junk from last year. That wasn't the reaction she was looking for).
Murphy Siding You say that American consumers have the power to refuse purchase of items... Yes, technically, but I think most don't have the will to do that.
It's amusing how over the years I often used a convoluted logic when buying big ticket consumer items that "some day when society collapses, things like this will be priceless/unobtainable" (therefore worth buying the best "now" )....and here just a mere 50 years later, it's coming to pass.
It's really amazing how few things that I really have to purchase. Food? yes. Utilities? yes. Gasoline? I get by on about a tank and a quarter per month.
So, I guess we're down to razor blades, soap, and Dr Pepper being my discretionary "luxuries"?
I think we as a society are brainwashed into being compulsive consumers.
EuclidI think you are stereotyping consumer behavior when you say they don’t have the will to refuse a price they feel is too high for them.
I think he has a point. Ego is a big part of it. "Oh, won't the Joneses be impressed when they see that I have the latest trinket?" etc.
I think it's become a compulsion, at least for some.
One person's luxury is another person's necessity.
Through the miracle of advertising, many luxury items are now viewed as necessities.
For some items demand will come down as prices rise, but not for others. For some items it won't be because people decide that, "I'm not going to pay those kind of prices." but rather, "I can't pay those kind of prices."
Euclid Murphy Siding Euclid But the video does make one point that I find very interesting. It points to the massive cost of idling many dozens of container ships waiting for access to the ports, and it says this cost will have to be passed on to the consumers. Yet while consumers are powerless to prevent this, they do have the power to refuse purchase of items that have been absurdly overpriced to pay for the parked container ships. Therefore, it is unlikely that the cost of stalled container ships will be passed onto the consumer. These costs will be suffered as a loss to the industry. Perhaps these losses will be recouped over time as the shipping industry gradually raises shipping costs at a rate the customer can bear. In the end, the cost always gets passed on to the consumer. It's all about supply and demand. You say that American consumers have the power to refuse purchase of items... Yes, technically, but I think most don't have the will to do that. A woman I work with was fretting about constant news stories that "OMG!! there might not be any toys for Christmas this year." (I suggested she just re-wrap the junk from last year. That wasn't the reaction she was looking for). I think you are stereotyping consumer behavior when you say they don’t have the will to refuse a price they feel is too high for them. It is a fundamental truth of economics that (all other things being equal) as a product price rises, the demand for that product will fall. Therefore, price is most definitely a factor in supply and demand. That is why they always refer to pricing product at the highest price that the market will bear. If price is not a factor, why don’t grocery stores just double their prices today? Do they not want a higher income? Quote from one reference: What is relationship between price and demand? Thus, the price of a product and the quantity demanded for that product have an inverse relationship, as stated in the law of demand. An inverse relationship means that higher prices result in lower quantity demand and lower prices result in higher quantity demand.
jeffhergert One person's luxury is another person's necessity. Through the miracle of advertising, many luxury items are now viewed as necessities. For some items demand will come down as prices rise, but not for others. For some items it won't be because people decide that, "I'm not going to pay those kind of prices." but rather, "I can't pay those kind of prices." Jeff
Murphy SidingSo you quit buying toilet paper when the price got too high?
Had to revert to using lettuce. Today was just the tip of the iceberg. Tomorrow romaines to be seen...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
"Toilet paper? Toilet paper! We don't need no steekin' toilet paper."
At least that's what the ad I saw last night on TV said. Never buy toilet paprt again.
OMIGO Element Bidet Toilet Seat Attachment – Omigo (myomigo.com)
greyhoundsDealing with a blip such as TP hoarding is just that, a temporary blip.
The blip came back, it seems.
I don't get it.
Never a shortage of junk mail, so it seems.
And then there is the three corn cob solution, with one cob being white.
zugmannThe blip came back, it seems. I don't get it.
Are you having trouble getting TP? It seems to be in good supply here.
Euclid Therefore, it is unlikely that the cost of stalled container ships will be passed onto the consumer. These costs will be suffered as a loss to the industry. Perhaps these losses will be recouped over time as the shipping industry gradually raises shipping costs at a rate the customer can bear.
Not sure if you've been paying attention.. The average spot rate for a Transpac FEU(Forty Equivalent Unit) is above $20K.... Maersk, ONE Network, ZIM, et al. have posted record profits.
As of now container lines won't be looking at any losses now or going forward.
Euclid... Therefore, it is unlikely that the cost of stalled container ships will be passed onto the consumer. These costs will be suffered as a loss to the industry. Perhaps these losses will be recouped over time as the shipping industry gradually raises shipping costs at a rate the customer can bear.
Euc I don't know what world you have been living in. In this world, all costs in the chain between origin and ultimate consumer end up being passed on to that ultimate consumer. The world economic system is like a amusement ride - nobody rides for free.
greyhounds zugmann The blip came back, it seems. I don't get it. Are you having trouble getting TP? It seems to be in good supply here.
zugmann The blip came back, it seems. I don't get it.
Euclid I think you are stereotyping consumer behavior when you say they don’t have the will to refuse a price they feel is too high for them. It is a fundamental truth of economics that (all other things being equal) as a product price rises, the demand for that product will fall. Therefore, price is most definitely a factor in supply and demand. That is why they always refer to pricing product at the highest price that the market will bear. If price is not a factor, why don’t grocery stores just double their prices today? Do they not want a higher income?
SD60MAC9500 Euclid Therefore, it is unlikely that the cost of stalled container ships will be passed onto the consumer. These costs will be suffered as a loss to the industry. Perhaps these losses will be recouped over time as the shipping industry gradually raises shipping costs at a rate the customer can bear. Not sure if you've been paying attention.. The average spot rate for a Transpac FEU(Forty Equivalent Unit) is above $20K.... Maersk, ONE Network, ZIM, et al. have posted record profits. As of now container lines won't be looking at any losses now or going forward.
Where do the the 'inland ports' fit into this puzzle? I thought one of the transcons had one set up in NV? Could running a bunch of shuttle trains from LA to the inland port gain anyting, or does it just move the bottleneck east a bit?
The biggest problem is just getting the ships unloaded then reloaded for shipment. The problem is LA and Long Beach combined take in 40 percent of all imported goods into the USA. The supply chain can't move to a different location to spread out the volume of cargo coming in.
Yes some of the cargo can come into a different port if it's headed for say the Midwest or east coast. But the problem is that the importers have decided that it's not worth the hassle to spread out the capacity.
BaltACDIn this world, all costs in the chain between origin and ultimate consumer end up being passed on to that ultimate consumer. The world economic system is like a amusement ride - nobody rides for free.
That's right. "End user bears all costs."
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