To ilikeplanes:
Thanks for you report ... and welcome to the forum.
Do you know if UP is laying track anywhere between Estrella and Tucson, AZ?
K.P.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.
Update as of Monday, June 23, 2008:
At West Colton Yard, adjacent the Riverside Ave. overpass in Rialto, CA what is identified as Track 112 but is to become Main Track 2 has been freshly ballasted. A new but unhooked up signal has been erected west of Riverside Ave. for that track. Because of motorist traffic, a photo could not be taken. Maybe another time ...
A note to desertdog:
Thanks for replying to the recent inquiry. Sunset Route followers eagerly look forward to your enlightening report of your finding after you pass through Maricopa, AZ in the near future
KP,
I have not been down to Maricopa or beyond for several weeks but will be heading to Tucson the week after next on business and will make sure to take the "scenic route."
John T.
Desertdog:
Any new track laying developments out your way in Arizona?
Thanks.
CShaveRR wrote: Time for bed now--back to the ski-jump tomorrow! No Dowty about it!
Time for bed now--back to the ski-jump tomorrow! No Dowty about it!
I hope you can hear me groaning from 1,800 miles away!
Yep, Livonia's what I was thinking of. For some reason, whenever I hear Livonia, I still think of Michigan.
By the way, RWM, congratulations on finally becoming a millennium poster!
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
Railway Man wrote: You're thinking of Livonia. Dowty retarders appear to be the standard now, and equip the rebuilt Roseville Yard. These new humps are not at all like yards such as Clearing, which is like standing on top of a ski jump by comparison.RWM
You're thinking of Livonia. Dowty retarders appear to be the standard now, and equip the rebuilt Roseville Yard.
These new humps are not at all like yards such as Clearing, which is like standing on top of a ski jump by comparison.
RWM
A while back on another discussion group a Roseville employee was complaining about the design of the re-built Roseville Yard, especially the hump. I don't recall the details.
John Timm
desertdog wrote: diningcar wrote:Perhaps I have missed something, but my understanding is : the Red Rock yard will be a LOGISTIC YARD, not a hump yard. Anyone else??? By "logistic" you mean intermodal / transload, correct? No, it is to be a classification yard. I don't recall if it will be flat or a hump yard.John Timm
diningcar wrote:Perhaps I have missed something, but my understanding is : the Red Rock yard will be a LOGISTIC YARD, not a hump yard. Anyone else???
By "logistic" you mean intermodal / transload, correct? No, it is to be a classification yard. I don't recall if it will be flat or a hump yard.
Red Rock will be a hump yard.
KP
Thx for the continuing updates when its all completed on both lines it would make for an interesting book.
Al - in - Stockton
Update as of June 18, 2008:
West Colton Yard, from the Cedar Ave. overpass, Bloomington, CA
Track workers are forming mainline replacement turnouts. Views look west. In the first photo, the not-in-service-yet track on the far right is the future Track 1
Update as of Saturday, May 31, 2008:
Pomona, CA Temple Ave. overpass. Looking westward at old Los Angeles & Salt Lake route. View shows where the rerouted ex-Southern Pacific line will connect in background right. At least three new turnouts have been constructed
In the past, this forum contributor understood that after the above new arrangement was all in place and operational, a couple miles of the original Sunset Route would be abandoned. But, the following photos (from Temple Ave.) of a pending tie replacement program indicate otherwise
Westbound view
Eastbound
Anybody have an explanation for this?
Considerable roadbed grading and ditching for drainage has taken place between Maricopa and Casa Grande since my last visit. At Maricopa, it appears that a new switch will be cut in just west of the bridge that spans the large wash east of town. I have no idea what purpose it will serve unless that is to be the new depot site.
At the Bon staging area there are several precast bridge sections with the word "Reject" painted in red across the end. Closer to Tucson, several of the metal culverts have been tagged by the local grafitti "artists." I wonder if they realize that their "art" will soon be buried for perhaps several centuries?
Ames Construction has moved a lot of equipment to a new site just east of the wye switch at Picacho on the north side of the tracks.
Now that the local mayors and the railroad have made peace, it will be interesting to know where they will install the underpasses that UP has commited to help fund. Maricopa could really use one more than Casa Grande, but the main road through town and the local businesses are located in such a way that it will not be easy to follow the current route.
Sunset Route Two-Tracking Garnet-Indio, CA as of May 18, 2008:
With high telephoto blur, this shot east of the Amtrak depot taken from the Indian Ave. overpass in Palm Springs appears to show the westernmost CTC signals of a new control point (CP). That CP would be the eastern end of the present "South" siding at the timetable location called Garnet.
View is looking west from the Gene Autry Trail overpass. The Salvia siding (far right) WILL remain, while the new second main is on the far left. Present main is center track.
Salvia, looking east. New signals are in background.
From Date Palm Ave., looking west. Hardly a bridge for railfans!
Looking east.
From Ramon Road, looking west.
Looking east. The old cantilevered signal bridge seen in previous views has been removed.
A bridge is being constructed in Indio for the second main
A Cursory Analysis of the Future Colton, CA Flyer
View looks NORTH, or eastbound, at BNSF's Los Angeles-Chicago Transcon.
Looking SOUTH, or westbound, at the Transcon's actual crossing of the Sunset Route. New Orleans (east) is to the left, Los Angeles (west) to the right. Immediately ahead is the Interstate 10 overhead. Three blocks straight ahead is an underpass. So, for all practical purposes, the BNSF main cannot be raised or lowered.
The Sunset Route proper ... The Rancho Ave. overpass on the west. This is the western limit of the flyover. Double-stack train is on the West Colton Yard's "Bypass" track
Through this enlightening east looking trackside view the grade situation is made easy to visualize. From Rancho Ave. the shown Sunset Route grade is downward to where it levels off for crossing the BNSF Railway, and then heads downward again nearly a mile to the Mt. Vernon Ave. overpass.
View of the Mt. Vernon Ave. overpass. The flyover cannot go east beyond this point.
A west facing shot from the approach to the Mt. Vernon Ave. overpass. In the far background is the Rancho Ave. overpass. In the center is the old Southern Pacific passenger depot. Immediately left of it can be seen further back a BNSF Railway train crossing the "diamonds" in front of a waiting westbound Union Pacific train. In the foreground is where the old Pacific Electric freight switching yard was located decades ago. In reviewing Internet U. S. Geological Survey maps and data, the less than one and a quarter mile elevation increase from east (Mt. Vernon Ave., the camera location) to west (Rancho Ave., in the far background) appears to be around 45 feet, making for a present average 1% grade.
This view looks east from the Mt. Vernon overpass area. From right to left, the tracks continue to descend a couple of miles and then starts ascending through San Timoteo Canyon, the western slope of the famous Beaumont Hill
Analysis: The future flyover has severe and challenging geographic design limitations placed upon it.
The key and severest gradient span will be between Mt. Vernon Ave. (in the east) and the BNSF Railway line (about 3/8's of a mile from Rancho Ave. in the west)
While the necessary track elevation increase is not insurmountable in itself, it will be interesting to see what design engineers come up with.
A Close-By Case Example
West of Colton, CA is the six mile long West Colton Yard classification facility. At the east end of that yard a line shoots north to northern California and Oregon, the first 78 miles of which is known as the Palmdale Cutoff. Northward on that Palmdale Cutoff, right out of West Colton Yard, is the Slover siding. The north end of Slover and the line immediately past it conveniently provides our case study example ...
The north end of Slover siding. After the Mill Street overpass (from which this picture was captured) in San Bernardino, the track rises steeply ...
... and goes over Rialto Ave. and the former route of the famous Santa Fe "Super Chief," which route is now owned my Metrolink, the commuter agency in the Los Angeles area.
The bridge viewed from the northeast
On the north side of the railroad bridge, the north-south track slopes steeply.
(For rail history buffs, left of the telephone poles but right of the trees is the alignment of the famous Pacific Electric trolley line that ran between Los Angeles and San Bernardino many, many years ago. The line was in a deep cut to get underneath the then Santa Fe main behind the camera)
This view looking southward shows how steeply the line then descends. The angled ex-Santa Fe line is in the left background
The line descends severely in order to go underneath Foothill Blvd., the famous "Route 66," where the below photograph was taken. Comparing the rail line to the rather level land on each side of the track cut puts the downward slope's steepness into perspective
Conclusion: The Colton Flyover is definitely possible, but will, by necessity, differ from traditional design gradients, if but for only a short distance
Pomona, CA
Compare MP57313's May 3 Pomona, CA area SOUTH SIDE photo view looking NORTHWEST from a Metrolink commuter train ...
MP57313 wrote: Following up on the earlier post...on May 2 I was able to ride Metrolink out to Pomona on the Salt Lake route. Here is an update of the Sunset relocation near west Pomona/Industry...there is now one unballasted track; see grab-shot pic
Following up on the earlier post...on May 2 I was able to ride Metrolink out to Pomona on the Salt Lake route. Here is an update of the Sunset relocation near west Pomona/Industry...there is now one unballasted track; see grab-shot pic
... With the below NORTH SIDE photo that looks SOUTHEAST from Valley Blvd. The ex-Southern Pacific line in the middle foreground is the track that will be eliminated. The reverse S-curve is the new relocated line. Union Pacific's old Los Angeles & Salt Lake line is in the top background, and is the line MP57313 took his photo from. The new track and right-of-way is now fenced on both sides.
There has been some question about the railroad location called "West Pomona." Union Pacific timetables do NOT list this location, but, according to sources, the ‘LA Area Timetable Map' DOES show it. But this photo is proof that the control point place does exist. This is part of the Sunset line that will be eliminated. (Click on photo to enlarge)
However, EAST of "West Pomona," some track will still be needed to serve present rail customers
Another customer to serve on photo far left
Even though a section of ex-SP "Sunset" line will be eliminated, oddly, NEW concrete ties have been staged for it
From Hamilton Avenue, looking east
Something is marked at Hamilton Avenue ...
From Hamilton Avenue, views look west. Most Sunset Route trains gravitate over to or from Union Pacific's old Los Angeles & Salt Lake Route (on far left). This switch-work was installed shortly after the Southern Pacific-Union Pacific merger of 1997. With the reroute, it will be interesting to see if UP modifies the track here further
West Colton Yard
Bloomington, CA. From the Cedar Avenue overpass, view looks west. The laying of the second track FROM the west has reached where the alignment will shift to the left to go beneath the overpass.
Looking east, new absolute signals have been erected.
At east end of yard, the Pepper Avenue overpass modification appears to be complete. Though previously anticipated, the bridge structure was NOT modified for a second main track. From Cedar Avenue to here, the present track that follows alongside the main will apparently be upgraded to a second main
Nevertheless, this contributor still believes both mains will follow the Bypass route ...
... Because the right-of-way is too wide for merely single-track, as evidenced by the below previously posted photo.
Maricopa, AZ
This is the ex-California Zephyr domed observation CB&Q "Silver Horizon" that John Timm (desertdog) spoke about in his above post. The 60-year old car (1948-2008) is made of stainless steel, and, I believe, does NOT rust. The sad rusting visible undoubtedly is from some corroded maverick internal piping modification. The Maricopa Amtrak station is out of view on the right, as well as UP's two-tracking project. A link to an aerial view is in a post above
It looks like the Maricopa, AZ Amtrak depot will be moving from the present site. I wonder what this means for the track configuration. Also, I hope someone takes steps to preserve the CB&Q observation car next door, as well. It is being vandalized and rusting badly in places.
The Casa Grande depot will end up belonging to the City. I believe they have plans to make it a museum.
Railway Age, May 8, 2008:
"Union Pacific, trying to clear the way for double-tracking its main line across southern Arizona, has agreed to provide $35 million over the next 25 years to help build grade-separated road and rail crossings in growing Pinal County, local newspapers report.The agreement, according to the railroad, county officials and mayors of Eloy, Maricopa and Casa Grande, will have Union Pacific pay major shares of the costs of designing of three or possibly four underpasses or overpasses. That represents a change of approach for UP, which previously tried to dampen suggestions that it pay for building grade-separated crossings. A UP official said in 2007 that underpasses and overpasses can cost $10 million to $30 million apiece.'It's a progression. We were able to sit down' with the local officials to discuss their concerns, said Luis Heredia, a UP community affairs director.The agreement calls for the local governments involved to identify which crossings will get bridges or underpasses and to support UP's double-tracking when the Arizona Corporation Commission considers UP's applications for changes to existing grade-crossings.Pinal County is located in south-central Arizona between Phoenix and Tucson. The county has seen extensive population growth as well as increased traffic on local roadways in recent years, raising concerns about the railroad's track expansion project.The agreement also calls for UP to take other steps, including donating a former depot in Casa Grande to the city and helping relocate the Amtrak passenger station in Maricopa."
The below link brings up a mapquest.com aerial view of the Sunset Route through Maricopa, AZ. Size the view to Step 2 (on the display left).
John Timm in his enlightening April 14, 2008 post mentioned "The way the [Amtrak cement]platforms are poured." The link below shows those platforms and obviously where the Sunset Route second track will be laid.
Also in the aerial, for old passenger train and trivia buffs, just north of the Amtrak station can be seen the 60 year old (this year) California Zephyr dome tail-car CB&Q "Silver Horizon" that is on permanent display in Maricopa.
http://www.mapquest.com/mq/2-xYz6ZsmRJK6MgvDt
(The technical data entry for mapquest.com is "N John Wayne Pkwy & S. R. 238" "Maricopa" "AZ" and set to Aerial. But the above link should be sufficient.)
cacole:
Thank you for your above very current ARIZONA input.
When passing through Red Rock April 14, I too contemplated with difficulty how a hump yard could be fit into the available space.
However, when visiting California's West Colton Yard facility Friday, April 25, I was stuck by the narrowness of the Receiving Yard. With that, I concluded Red Rock could be built in a rather confining area.
The hump would be the widest aspect of the Red Rock Yard. The community there does have some wide open areas.
A contributing factor, in my opinion, for the need of a new hump yard is how confining West Colton Yard has become. If the below two photos are studied, one will note the West Colton Receiving Yard is hemmed in by Interstate 10 on the north, and businesses, such as a trucking property, on the south.
As far as that canal, mapquest.com shows the "Tucson Aqueduct" conflicting in only one place. I don't know if the "Central Arizona Project" is the same thing or not. But, as stated above, a narrow few hundred feet could be sufficient for parts of a yard at Red Rock.
You, cacole, as an Arizona resident, are in a better position than I am here in California to make an assessment of the situation at Red Rock. But, I agree with you: It is very difficult to mentally project a yard in that strangely confining area, in Arizona of all places, a land noted for very wide open spaces!
K. P.
As of Friday, 25 April 2008, a large construction staging area is being built on the southern edge of Picacho, in a field east of the track. There were several gondolas of fill dirt sitting on a siding between Red Rock and Marana to the south.
I don't understand how the Union Pacific can be planning a 6-mile long automated hump yard at Red Rock as announced in Trains Magazine a few months ago, because the Central Arizona Project water canal from the Colorado River to Tucson runs parallel to the railroad in that area, and doesn't seem to be far enough away from the track for a yard to be squeezed in. At one point, the canal and railroad seem to be only a few hundred feet apart.
West Colton Yard, CA area progress:
From the Sierra Avenue overpass in Fontana, looking west. Track on left is switching lead, main is on right. Track on lower far right will be the new second main. It is unknown how the second main will affect the billboards in the background
Looking east, toward Receiving Yard. Un-ballasted track on far left will be the new second main
Concrete blocks in this photograph's center are believed to be for a new two-track cantilevered signal bridge
From Cedar Avenue overpass in Bloomington, look west. Track on right is present main. New second main under construction out of view will be on far right. Because of insufficient overpass side clearance, both new and old mains will alignment shift to the left (south). Such necessitated as a first step the straight track removal where the yellow truck is located
Looking east. Turnouts are laid out in preparation for alignment readjustments
This truck loaded with pre-stressed concrete ties is slowly moving BACKWARDS a mile to where the second main is progressing eastward. In some ways, it explains the snail-pace of the West Colton Yard revisions and Sunset Route two-tracking!
John Timm:
Thanks for the above compliment.
From my travel observations a few days ago, bridges and culvers seem to be being completely replaced with two-track width assemblages that meet modern UP standards.
Last year, I drove the Tucumcari line from El Paso to near Kansas City. Virtually all the bridges, short and long, had no protective handrails, and I don't believe any room to walk. I don't have the foggiest idea how crewmembers there walk a train that is in emergency. On the Sunset Route I traversed a few days ago, there were such bridges here and there, but it is not clear in my mind how rare or widespread they are.
When the UP was two-tracking the east side of Beaumont Hill in California several years ago, the second main often went right where sidings were. However, with the present new track construction, UP seems to be laying the new second track on whatever side is advantageous WITHOUT consideration to present sidings.
Railway Man:
Thank you for the Shawmut location info of April 16.
A few days ago, as I drove past the track visible from the highway at Shawmut, I was incredibly struck by the super sharp curvatures there. But, your post input made it all make sense. What I saw in reality was only the siding.
In light of your above post (about a "curve steel gang" active in the Shawmut siding), I wonder if the present main through Shawmut will be two-tracked, and the 'away from the main' siding remain so wide loads that meet at Shawmut can easily get around each other.
An excellent photo documentary.
I just came back from Tucson this evening. From Red Rock west to Casa Grande, crews are installing new culverts to replace the aging and mostly wooden bridges that date well back into the twentieth century. It was hard to tell if they are going to add culverts for the second track at this time or not. West of C.G., as you point out, the culverts for the second track are well under way.
I, too, have noticed the extra signal heads. It makes sense that they would take the place of signals that are going to have to be removed. There are at least a couple east of Naviska and a separate signal and mast have sat unused for at least three years at the east end of the Casa Grande siding.
At Maricopa, I tried to get the attention of the Amtrak agent to see if he knew where they were going to put the second track in front of the depot but he was too busy trimming the palo verde trees. The way the platforms are poured, the track would stay on the side closest to the depot (north side). How that affects the passing siding that starts just west of there remains to be seen. Hopefully, the old SP water tower will remain.
SECOND of Two Posts:
All photos herein were taken April 13-14, 2008 ...
Arizona: Dome to Yuma
There is not much activity in this section. However ...
Signals are apparently being modified. Note that temporary lower signal units being added at the west end of Kinter.
Between Kinter and Blaisdell, rugged terrain is encountered that will require major cuts and fills
Looking eastbound from WITHIN the Blaisdell Control Point: Note the absolute signal in the distance on the left.
Looking the other way, westbound: The turnout at present end of the short, four or five mile section of two-tracks is being slowly converted to a full crossover.
The days appear numbered for the present Control Point Fortuna, the present western end of the four or fives miles of two-tracks from Blaisdell.
Looking west
California: Indio to Garnet
Presently, grading has spread out from Thousand Palms both westward to Garnet and eastward to Indio. The turnout pictured here is the beginning of the present nine-mile or so section of ancient double-track (NOT two-tracks) from Indio to Thermal. Photo was taken from the Monroe Street overpass and looks west. New grading is on the SOUTH side.
Looking east from the Washington Street overpass. Grading here is on the NORTH side.
From Ramon Road, view is looking east. The NEW track is on the foreground left. The jog in the left track in the background is the former end of the four-mile section of two-tracks called Thousand Palms. The old cantilever signal is now out of service.
BEHIND THE CAMERA, the new track is on the north side of the old main. IN FRONT OF THE CAMERA, the new track was laid on the south side, on the left. As seen on the bottom of this photograph, the tracks change alignment as they go under the overpass.
Telephoto of same above location: The new Control Point is now operational, and both tracks in the foreground are active. The far background left track is NOT operational, but is slowly being extended westward out of camera view.
Un-ballasted newly laid track in Cathedral City
The Date Palm Drive roadway bridge widening in Cathedral City is coincidental. Un-ballasted new track is on the south side (right).
View is looking west from the Gene Autry Trail overpass. The Salvia siding is on the right.
Photo was taken from the Indian Avenue overpass in Palm Springs, and looks eastbound down onto the railroad timetable location Garnet. Main is on left, the "South" siding is on the right. The new main will likely be on the far left.
View looks west. From left to right, (1) the "South" Garnet siding, (2) Track 2, (3) Track 1 (former "North" siding), and (4) a Union Pacific spur. This Garnet location is the present end of two-tracks from the west (background). Note old absolute signals in lower left.
The Amtrak Station, Palm Springs.
Red Rock, AZ
According to the November, 2007 issue of TRAINS, Union Pacific plans on building a new hump yard at Red Rock.
Here is what the place looks like now (April, 2008) ...
A water tower! (There are a few left in America, believe it or not)
Looking railroad west from Red Rock freeway exit
Railroad east
The terrain
From the west end Red Rock siding, looking west
Looking east from west end
View of east end Red Rock siding, looking railroad east
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