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Abandoned Peoria

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Posted by MP173 on Thursday, November 15, 2007 4:48 PM

bn13814:

That was quite a historical view of Peoria/Central Illinois traffic patterns.  Thanks.

What is the status of the former IC line from Peoria to Decatur.  I assume there is a daily each way.  Is there also grain trains off of the BNSF from Dubuque?

ed

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Posted by gabe on Thursday, November 15, 2007 4:15 PM
 Convicted One wrote:

Thanks again.. Smile [:)]

 

So you say "ITC", does that mean it's a former interurban line?

Yes.  It started its existence as the ITC ("Illinois Traction Company") and became the Illinois Terminal Railway, I believe in the late 50s.  The ITC/IT story is a good one.  For a regional, it had a heck of a traffic base.  It had considerable Peoria bridge traffic, to say nothing of the Peoria industries, ADM in Decatur, ample access to grain elevators, substantial coal on the line, and a petro-chemical business in Roxana. 

But, razor-thin street car rails and several towns that objected to 4-diesel 130 car trains going down mainstreet at all hours of the day and night never really gave the IT a fighting chance to make it in today's rail world.  When some of its bridges started collapsing--namely the one in Peoria--that was the beginning of the end.

I always wondered what was the more valuale line for the IT, Springfiled to Peoria or Springfield to Decatur/Champain/Danville.  I think the IT had a lot more interchange traffic at Peoria, but ADM had to be a pretty valuable asset in Decatur.

I often wonder if the IT could have survived were it not for its street car heritage.  My bet is yes.  It would have made a nice fit with CSX pre-Conrail in the merger game.

Gabe

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Posted by al-in-chgo on Thursday, November 15, 2007 4:00 PM
 KCSfan wrote:

It's not really strange Al since the original question referred to "eastern" railroads that no longer served Peoria. The RI certainly was never counted as an eastern railroad.

Mark

Touche!  - al

 

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Posted by Convicted One on Thursday, November 15, 2007 3:03 PM

Thanks again.. Smile [:)]

 

So you say "ITC", does that mean it's a former interurban line?

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Posted by KCSfan on Thursday, November 15, 2007 2:24 PM

Yes, Convicted One. The routing was down the ITC Peoria - St Louis main from Peoria thru Lincoln to Springfield thence over the former ITC Springfield - Danville line as far as Decatur. The ITC's Peoria - Mackinaw Jct. - Decatur line thru Bloomington had been abandoned long before.

Mark

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Posted by Convicted One on Thursday, November 15, 2007 12:59 PM
 bn13814 wrote:

No eastern road, except Conrail, actually "gave up" their route to Peoria over the years.

The Pennsylvania RR let TP&W handle most east-west traffic for them between East Peoria and Effner. The Penn Central merger in 1968 led to the diversion of the small amount of through traffic still handled by the PRR Terre Haute - Farmdale Jct. line to the Peoria & Eastern. A portion of the line between Atlanta and Waynesville was embargoed after a 1973 washout. The Maroa - Farmdale Jct. portion was then sold to Illinois Terminal on April 1, 1976. IT was a north-south oriented Regional.

Conrail closed the Olin (IN) to Crawfordsville (IN) segment of the former Peoria & Eastern (operated by New York Central and predecessor Big Four since 1890) Indianapolis - Pekin mainline in 1981 after it was discovered the Wabash River was undercutting the railroad bridge spanning it. The daily pair of manifests - INPE and PEIN - were diverted via Terre Haute. Flooding caused washouts near Mackinaw in the fall of 1983, which led to a permanent diversion of INPE and PEIN to the Norfolk & Western west of Bloomington sometime in 1984. Conrail put the "Pekin Secondary" up for sale in 1991, but took it off the block after talks with Pioneer Railcorp fell through in 1992. The lines were for sale again in 1995 and after sale to Norfolk Southern of the Bloomington - Urbana segment the following year, Conrail replaced direct service to Peoria with a haulage deal (NS handled there traffic between Lafayette and East Peoria) lasting to the breakup in 1999.

Norfolk & Western decided to close the Lafayette - Gibson City section of its old NKP line to through traffic in late 1986, rerouting everything via Decatur (not Chicago) instead. classification of Peoria and Bloomington-Normal traffic at Decatur made sence because north-south traffic inherited from ITC in 1982 and east-west former NKP traffic could be handled there.

The TP&W served as a major east-west bridge route from 1927 to 1981. It's eastern connection with Conrail at Logansport (shifted from Penn Central at Effner in 1976, after acquiring the former PRR Effner Branch that year) was cut off after Conrail canceled joint rates that made Logansport an interchange point. Most rates included the Santa Fe as well, but TP&W interchanged much traffic generated in the Peoria area with Conrail as well. Ironically, the Conrail Transaction has somewhat restored TP&W's eastern outlet, though rather than being NS at Logansport, the shortline's major eastern interchange is with CSXT at Lafayette.

Railroads began de-emphasizing Peoria as a major Gateway following the C&NW's takeover of the M&StL in 1960. That diverted a large chunk of business away from the NKP, NYC, TP&W and even PRR. Improved connections at Chicago betwen eastern and western roads caused the CB&Q and NYC to reduce their Peoria interchange by the late 1960's. The N&W+NKP+WAB merger led to N&W trying to bypass the TP&W and interchange directly with the AT&SF at Kansas City. Reduced traffic and deferred maintenance led to fewer trains on the N&W Peoria District from 1965. A decline in perishable and meat traffic (diversion to COFC and trucks) cut out a lot of CB&Q-N&W interchange by 1970.

By 1970, TP&W was the only carrier here handling a significant amount of east-west overhead traffic. P&E and N&W were mainly (though not entirely) dependent on traffic moving to and from the Peoria Switching District. N&W did, however, have a small, but steady amout of interchange with BN through the decade (forest products, sand, frozen foods, aluminum, etc.).

With deregulation, railroads canceled joint rates, transit rates and many interchange points. Conrail expected to increase its line-haul by cutting TP&W from the eastbound routing of Caterpillar machinery and parts after after canceling rates favoring the Logansport Gateway in 1981, but instead lost that business to Norfolk & Western. CR never recovered and shortly would reduce its service to alternate days and eliminate through train service altogether c. 1992. Locals out of Danville (Hillery) made runs to East Peoria thereafter.

N&W/NS lost business when they diverted Peoria and Bloomington-Normal traffic via Decatur in 1986 but began building it back by the 1990's. Diversion of traffic via Decatur didn't stop them from shifting most BNSF interchange at Chicago to Peoria in 1995. That move doubled train service on both the NS and BNSF lines to Peoria. Unfortunately, the Conrail Transaction gave NS an alternative and the heavy BNSF traffic was diverted away from Peoria.

Norfolk Southern's service issues following the Conrail breakup led to the discontinuance of their local intermodal service, which TP&W and CN happily snatched up. The Conrail breakup led to the end of Conrail haulage service to Peoria but it increased TP&W-CSXT routings.

Currently, competitive single-line NS and joint TP&W-CSXT routings are available to Peoria area shippers. There's some limited CN traffic to and from the east, mostly Michigan and Canada. Also, joint TP&W-CN intermodal service routes Caterpillar parts to Europe via the Port of Halifax.

DPJ

 

Your detailed account was very informative, and much appreciated.

When you say that NS rerouted  Peoria traffic through Decatur, is that the Line that runs through Lincoln?

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Posted by Convicted One on Thursday, November 15, 2007 12:23 PM
 nordique72 wrote:

". (Although I do wager that the line south out of Pekin that Convicted One speaks of is the former CNW- which ran straight as a string south to Barr-....)

 

Tis' a wager you would WIN, too.. Bow [bow]

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Posted by nordique72 on Thursday, November 15, 2007 11:48 AM

"It shouldn't be much of a surprise, the three "Midwestern" roads serving Peoria from the West were the CB&Q, Rock Island, and the C&NW, for all three Peoria was at or near the end of branch lines, and they were laid out and constructed as such."

In regards to "midwestern" roads, don't forget that the M&STL also came into Peoria, which intersected with the CNW's main into Peoria at Kickapoo Jct. just north of town adjacent to where the CBQ came in. All 3 then ran together in the Kickapoo Creek valley into town. The CNW's branch is interesting as such since it originally started as a branch from Nelson- then after the construction of the Southern Illinois extension to Benld (at Molitor Jct.- just northwest of town in the Kickapoo Creek valley)- the line from the north became a more extended ad-hoc main line to St. Louis and the Illinois coal fields, while the line beyond Molitor Jct. to Peoria remained as such... a branch.

The ATSF had a branch from the north at Streator that curved into Pekin/Peoria which was later abandoned after ATSF gained control of the TPW. The Rock Island was interesting as well, since they had two branch lines into Peoria from the north at one time!

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Posted by bn13814 on Thursday, November 15, 2007 11:34 AM

No eastern road, except Conrail, actually "gave up" their route to Peoria over the years.

The Pennsylvania RR let TP&W handle most east-west traffic for them between East Peoria and Effner. The Penn Central merger in 1968 led to the diversion of the small amount of through traffic still handled by the PRR Terre Haute - Farmdale Jct. line to the Peoria & Eastern. A portion of the line between Atlanta and Waynesville was embargoed after a 1973 washout. The Maroa - Farmdale Jct. portion was then sold to Illinois Terminal on April 1, 1976. IT was a north-south oriented Regional.

Conrail closed the Olin (IN) to Crawfordsville (IN) segment of the former Peoria & Eastern (operated by New York Central and predecessor Big Four since 1890) Indianapolis - Pekin mainline in 1981 after it was discovered the Wabash River was undercutting the railroad bridge spanning it. The daily pair of manifests - INPE and PEIN - were diverted via Terre Haute. Flooding caused washouts near Mackinaw in the fall of 1983, which led to a permanent diversion of INPE and PEIN to the Norfolk & Western west of Bloomington sometime in 1984. Conrail put the "Pekin Secondary" up for sale in 1991, but took it off the block after talks with Pioneer Railcorp fell through in 1992. The lines were for sale again in 1995 and after sale to Norfolk Southern of the Bloomington - Urbana segment the following year, Conrail replaced direct service to Peoria with a haulage deal (NS handled there traffic between Lafayette and East Peoria) lasting to the breakup in 1999.

Norfolk & Western decided to close the Lafayette - Gibson City section of its old NKP line to through traffic in late 1986, rerouting everything via Decatur (not Chicago) instead. classification of Peoria and Bloomington-Normal traffic at Decatur made sense because both north-south traffic inherited from ITC in 1982 and east-west former NKP traffic could be handled there.

The TP&W served as a major east-west bridge route from 1927 to 1981. It's eastern connection with Conrail at Logansport (shifted from Penn Central at Effner in 1976, after acquiring the former PRR Effner Branch that year) was cut off after Conrail canceled joint rates that made Logansport an interchange point. Most rates included the Santa Fe as well, but TP&W interchanged much traffic generated in the Peoria area with Conrail as well. Ironically, the Conrail Transaction has somewhat restored TP&W's eastern outlet, though rather than being NS at Logansport, the shortline's major eastern interchange is with CSXT at Lafayette.

Railroads began de-emphasizing Peoria as a major Gateway following the C&NW's takeover of the M&StL in 1960. That diverted a large chunk of business away from the NKP, NYC, TP&W and even PRR. Improved connections at Chicago betwen eastern and western roads caused the CB&Q and NYC to reduce their Peoria interchange by the late 1960's. The N&W+NKP+WAB merger led to N&W trying to bypass the TP&W and interchange directly with the AT&SF at Kansas City. Reduced traffic and deferred maintenance led to fewer trains on the N&W Peoria District from 1965. A decline in perishable and meat traffic (diversion to COFC and trucks) cut out a lot of CB&Q-N&W interchange by 1970.

By 1970, TP&W was the only carrier here handling a significant amount of east-west overhead traffic. P&E and N&W were mainly (though not entirely) dependent on traffic moving to and from the Peoria-Pekin Switching District. N&W did, however, have a small, but steady amout of interchange with BN through the decade (forest products, sand, frozen foods, aluminum ingots, etc.).

With deregulation, railroads canceled joint tariffs and transit rates and closed many interchange points. Conrail expected to increase its line-haul by cutting TP&W from the eastbound routing of Caterpillar machinery and parts after after canceling rates favoring the Logansport Gateway in 1981, but instead lost that business to Norfolk & Western. CR never recovered and shortly would reduce its service to alternate days and eliminate through train service altogether c. 1992. Locals out of Danville (Hillery) made runs to East Peoria thereafter.

N&W/NS lost business when they diverted Peoria and Bloomington-Normal traffic via Decatur in 1986 but began building it back by the 1990's. Diversion of traffic via Decatur didn't stop them from shifting most BNSF interchange at Chicago to Peoria in 1995. That move doubled train service on both the NS and BNSF lines to Peoria. Unfortunately, the Conrail Transaction gave NS an alternative and the heavy BNSF traffic was diverted away from Peoria.

Norfolk Southern's service issues following the Conrail breakup led to the discontinuance of their local intermodal service, which TP&W and CN happily snatched up. The Conrail breakup led to the end of Conrail haulage service to Peoria but it increased TP&W-CSXT routings.

Currently, competitive single-line NS and joint TP&W-CSXT routings are available to Peoria area shippers. There's some limited CN traffic to and from the east, mostly Michigan and Canada. Also, joint TP&W-CN intermodal service routes Caterpillar parts to Europe via the Port of Halifax.

DPJ

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Posted by nordique72 on Thursday, November 15, 2007 11:23 AM

"It only goes to Gibson City, and then trackage rights on CN(IC) are used to Chicago"

Dale,

To clarify your statement- it is true that the ex-NKP east out of Peoria is abandoned past Gibson City-but the trackage rights you refer to are for trains that once used the ex-Wabash Bement-Chicago main line. Once reaching Gibson City, the NS trains coming off the ex-NKP can re-enter the former Wabash Chicago line there and run south to Decatur or Danville. (Gibson City is also where the NS gets on the IC to Chicago- the WAB, IC and NKP all once crossed in a small interlocking where the NS-IC connector now is.)

Further east the NKP tracks are once again in use by the Kankakee Beaverville and Southern, starting at Cheneyville and running west to Lafayette. Beyond that the NS operates the line to it's traditional terminal point of Frankfort, IN.

In regards to another point- the CNW did not go to Springfield, the South Pekin Sub missed Springfield on the west side by a good 5 miles- the main interchange for CNW in the Springfield area was with the C&IM at Barr, about 15 miles northwest of town. CNW's nearest station point was Archer- which was just a siding in the middle of nowhere once, now it's overrun with the suburban sprawl of western Springfield. The main intent of the Southern Illinois extension for the CNW was to reach the coal fields around Staunton and Benld- this was especially apparent on the west side of Springfield where the CNW vaulted over the WAB, GMO (KC line) and the Alton and ITC (at Girard) with nary an interchange track to be found. (Although I do wager that the line south out of Pekin that Convicted One speaks of is the former CNW- which ran straight as a string south to Barr- since the CIM ran along the river Havana, and the IC and GMO lines angled southeasterly towards Lincoln and Sherman.)

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Posted by beaulieu on Thursday, November 15, 2007 10:24 AM
 gabe wrote:

When the IT's bridge into Peoria collapsed with a train on top of it, it then used the Pennsy bridge for Peoria access.

I stand with others in my amazement that more of an effort has not been used to rerout traffic through Peoria--or the Kankakee belt for that matter. 

Gabe

It shouldn't be much of a surprise, the three "Midwestern" roads serving Peoria from the West were the CB&Q, Rock Island, and the C&NW, for all three Peoria was at or near the end of branch lines, and they were laid out and constructed as such. While the industry in Peoria is important, the primary reason all three lines built into the Peoria area is to access mines for locomotive coal. Limitations of the Peoria area as an interchange point are similar to those inhibiting St. Louis, Navigable Waterway requiring high or Draw Bridges, and early development of the city meant the railroads were wedged in. The river bluffs also pose problems at Peoria. 

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Posted by nanaimo73 on Thursday, November 15, 2007 9:58 AM

 KCSfan wrote:
   I went back to my old OG's and found the route from Terre Haute thru Decatur to Peoria shown as a light line on the PRR maps and a corresponding time table (176a in my 1954 OG) showing it as "Freight Only" but listing all the towns served and their mileages from Terre Haute.

I never got to ride pre-Amtrak passenger trains, so I've never developed an interest in them. I've always looked at PRR vs NYC on old maps as to which lines went through more cities, and concluded Peoria was a draw.

As for using Peoria today as a Chicago bypass, it seems useless to UP, as their C&NW, MP/C&EI and SP/GM&O lines go around the city. BNSF is a different matter however. They route everything to Galesburg, and have a direct Galesburg-Peoria line.

Dale
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Posted by Convicted One on Thursday, November 15, 2007 9:46 AM
 KCSfan wrote:

Like so many other short line RR's the TP&W has from time to time been wholly or partially  owened by larger roads the PRR being one of them.

To say that the Pennsy ran into Peoria is akin to saying it ran to Kansas City by virtue of its one time control of the Wabash.

Mark

 

I'm not sure that your statement is entirely accurate. I would go so far as to say that even the period of joint agreement between Santa Fe and PRR, one of the objectives from the PRR side of the relationship was "access to Peoria"

The authors of the book I cited even went so far as to say that PRR's intention in acquiring control of the TP&W was out of desire to use Peoria as an alternative to Chicago. It just never panned out that way for them.

The more I read about the PRR's operational strategy, the more I learn that they should never be underestimated. They bought entire lines (ex: C,C, & IC) just to keep certain hostile contenders from gaining access  to their area.  Off topic but I suspect this often explains why certain PRR acquisitions never performed to the fullest. Simply put, the operation of a particular line to it's fullest potential may not have been the objective PRR held foremost...so much as keeping it away from their adversaries.

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Posted by gabe on Thursday, November 15, 2007 8:01 AM
 nanaimo73 wrote:
 KCSfan wrote:

The Pennsy did not actually reach Peoria 

Yes they did, they had a line from the Terre Haute area which went through Paris and Decatur. The northern end of the line was sold to IT after the Penn Central merger.

When the IT's bridge into Peoria collapsed with a train on top of it, it then used the Pennsy bridge for Peoria access.

I stand with others in my amazement that more of an effort has not been used to rerout traffic through Peoria--or the Kankakee belt for that matter. 

Gabe

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Posted by KCSfan on Thursday, November 15, 2007 2:48 AM
 nanaimo73 wrote:
 KCSfan wrote:

The Pennsy did not actually reach Peoria 

Yes they did, they had a line from the Terre Haute area which went through Paris and Decatur. The northern end of the line was sold to IT after the Penn Central merger.

Hi Dale,

You are absolutely right and I stand corrected. I never knew that line existed. I went back to my old OG's and found the route from Terre Haute thru Decatur to Peoria shown as a light line on the PRR maps and a corresponding time table (176a in my 1954 OG) showing it as "Freight Only" but listing all the towns served and their mileages from Terre Haute. Thanks for calling it to my attention.

Mark

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Posted by nanaimo73 on Thursday, November 15, 2007 1:17 AM
 KCSfan wrote:

The Pennsy did not actually reach Peoria 

Yes they did, they had a line from the Terre Haute area which went through Paris and Decatur. The northern end of the line was sold to IT after the Penn Central merger.

Dale
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Posted by KCSfan on Wednesday, November 14, 2007 9:17 PM

It's not really strange Al since the original question referred to "eastern" railroads that no longer served Peoria. The RI certainly was never counted as an eastern railroad.

Mark

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Posted by al-in-chgo on Wednesday, November 14, 2007 8:57 PM
How strange that no one has mentioned the obvious -- the Rock Island line, which ran into downtown Peoria from the north, on the Peoria side of the Illinois River. 
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Posted by KCSfan on Wednesday, November 14, 2007 8:47 PM

Thanks for the info Carl. I wasn't sure about that time period and you'll note that I said the 5 years of Santa Fe control might have been an exception to all the other years of TP&W stand alone identity. 

Mark

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Posted by CShaveRR on Wednesday, November 14, 2007 7:52 PM

Your point is a good one, Mark.

But your statement about the TP&W never having lost its identity is inaccurate.  It became wholly-owned by ATSF in 1981 (Hoosierlift in Remington, Indiana, was always considered an ATSF facility, even though it was built along the TP&W), and was merged into ATSF at the end of 1983 (TPW freight cars and locomotives were relettered and renumbered to ATSF series; the TPW reporting marks disappeared completely by mid-1988).  The TP&W regained its independence in 1989, at which time it got those GP20s and a few hopper cars, IIRC. 

Carl

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Posted by KCSfan on Wednesday, November 14, 2007 7:16 PM

Like so many other short line RR's the TP&W has from time to time been wholly or partially  owened by larger roads the PRR being one of them. Throughout its 150 year history it (or its predecessors) operated as an independent, stand alone, RR regardless of what bigger road(s) may have owned a controlling interest in it. At one time it was jointly owned by the CB&Q and PRR, during the latter 5 years of the 1980's the Santa Fe owned a controlling interest which they sold to RailAmerica in 1989 or 90. The TP&W always retained its identity and was never operated as a part of any larger railroad (the 5 years of Santa Fe control being a possible exception).

To say that the Pennsy ran into Peoria is akin to saying it ran to Kansas City by virtue of its one time control of the Wabash.

Mark

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Posted by Convicted One on Wednesday, November 14, 2007 6:27 PM
 KCSfan wrote:

The Pennsy did not actually reach Peoria but had a branch that ended at Effner, IN which was, and still is, literally a wide spot on the road at the IN-IL state line. Effner was the easten end of the TP&W and freight off the PRR branch was interchanged there to run over the TP&W to Peoria and points west. Today that former PRR trackage east of Effner to Logansport is owned by the TP&W which interchanges with the NS at Logansport. In the 50's (and probably before and after) it was interesting to see the contrast at Effner between the well ballasted and maintained TP&W line and the weed grown Pennsy line to the east.

Mark

 

According to Schafer & Soloman's Railroad Color History-Pennsylvania Railroad  the PRR acquired control of the TP&W between Effner and Peoria in 1893, and only later split control with CB&Q. (fwiw)

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Posted by KCSfan on Wednesday, November 14, 2007 6:07 PM

The Pennsy did not actually reach Peoria but had a branch that ended at Effner, IN which was, and still is, literally a wide spot on the road at the IN-IL state line. Effner was the easten end of the TP&W and freight off the PRR branch was interchanged there to run over the TP&W to Peoria and points west. Today that former PRR trackage east of Effner to Logansport is owned by the TP&W which interchanges with the NS at Logansport. In the 50's (and probably before and after) it was interesting to see the contrast at Effner between the well ballasted and maintained TP&W line and the weed grown Pennsy line to the east.

Mark

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Posted by Convicted One on Wednesday, November 14, 2007 2:05 PM
 nanaimo73 wrote:
 Convicted One wrote:
 I was reading an excellent book on the expansion and contraction of the PRR and related entities last night, and the author was talking about how the PRR (at first) envisioned the line to Peoria as a Chicago bypass, until other priorities rose to the forefront.
Heineman tried to build a Chicago bypass by adding the TP&W to his M&StL. PRR found out and got TP&W first, forcing Heineman over to the C&NW, and saving it from being swallowed by the CMSP&P

And, just working from (somewhat cloudy) memory, I don't believe that the NS line is intact all the way east from Peoria, any longer..perhaps they still get there, but not via the one time east bound main.

It only goes to Gibson City, and then trackage rights on CN(IC) are used to Chicago.

I had thought that B&O  had at one time had a  (NW-SE running) line across Illinois that was abandoned too...wasn't sure if that was a Peoria route as well.

B&O did have the Alton (1929-1943), which reached Peoria from the south on a line which is gone now. B&O proper connected with that line in Springfield. I would guess B&O used IT, or perhaps C&IM, to reach Peoria after 1943.

The old line from Pekin thru Tremont- who's line was that?

That was the NYC (P&E) line, which had trackage rights north from Pekin.

and, There is another line that ran due south out of Pekin,  toward Springfield...is that the IC line you mention?

C&NW, C&IM and Alton/GM&O connected Peoria and Springfield. IC's (now CN's) line went through Decatur to Evansville, and for awhile, all the way to Nashville.

There is also a line that runs from Morton thru Mackinaw..is that line still active?

Both PRR and IT went between Morton and Mackinaw, both of which are gone. There is, or was, a line from Morton to the NS/NKP at Crandall, which TP&W has/had, that was Alton/GM&O

thanks in advance

And then there was the Wabash, which may have used parent PRR, sibling TP&W, partially owned IT, or even the C&IM to reach Peoria.

 

 

Thanks much.  It's kind of a surprise that Peoria has not been exploited (more) as a workaround for the Chicago bottleneck. But, obviously several major players all had a chance to make a go of that, and for whatever reason decided otherwise.

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Posted by Convicted One on Wednesday, November 14, 2007 2:01 PM

 CSSHEGEWISCH wrote:
The B&O line in question ran through Decatur and Springfield, and terminated in Beardstown, of all places.  Beardstown was the westernmost point on the B&O system, slightly west of St. Louis.

Interesting..thanks...any idea "why beardstown?"?  was this a route intended  to points farther west that was just never completed?

 

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Posted by nanaimo73 on Wednesday, November 14, 2007 10:25 AM
 Convicted One wrote:
 I was reading an excellent book on the expansion and contraction of the PRR and related entities last night, and the author was talking about how the PRR (at first) envisioned the line to Peoria as a Chicago bypass, until other priorities rose to the forefront.
Heineman tried to build a Chicago bypass by adding the TP&W to his M&StL. PRR found out and got TP&W first, forcing Heineman over to the C&NW, and saving it from being swallowed by the CMSP&P

And, just working from (somewhat cloudy) memory, I don't believe that the NS line is intact all the way east from Peoria, any longer..perhaps they still get there, but not via the one time east bound main.

It only goes to Gibson City, and then trackage rights on CN(IC) are used to Chicago.

I had thought that B&O  had at one time had a  (NW-SE running) line across Illinois that was abandoned too...wasn't sure if that was a Peoria route as well.

B&O did have the Alton (1929-1943), which reached Peoria from the south on a line which is gone now. B&O proper connected with that line in Springfield. I would guess B&O used IT, or perhaps C&IM, to reach Peoria after 1943.

The old line from Pekin thru Tremont- who's line was that?

That was the NYC (P&E) line, which had trackage rights north from Pekin.

and, There is another line that ran due south out of Pekin,  toward Springfield...is that the IC line you mention?

C&NW, C&IM and Alton/GM&O connected Peoria and Springfield. IC's (now CN's) line went through Decatur to Evansville, and for awhile, all the way to Nashville.

There is also a line that runs from Morton thru Mackinaw..is that line still active?

Both PRR and IT went between Morton and Mackinaw, both of which are gone. There is, or was, a line from Morton to the NS/NKP at Crandall, which TP&W has/had, that was Alton/GM&O

thanks in advance

And then there was the Wabash, which may have used parent PRR, sibling TP&W, partially owned IT, or even the C&IM to reach Peoria.

 

Dale
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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Wednesday, November 14, 2007 10:15 AM
The B&O line in question ran through Decatur and Springfield, and terminated in Beardstown, of all places.  Beardstown was the westernmost point on the B&O system, slightly west of St. Louis.
The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by Convicted One on Wednesday, November 14, 2007 9:44 AM

 artpeterson wrote:
Hi - according to the SPV atlas, Pekin-Tremont is the former P&E line; while Morton-Mackinaw was it and the paralleling PRR line.  Art

 

Thanks!! Smile [:)]

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Posted by artpeterson on Wednesday, November 14, 2007 9:31 AM
Hi - according to the SPV atlas, Pekin-Tremont is the former P&E line; while Morton-Mackinaw was it and the paralleling PRR line.  Art
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Posted by Convicted One on Wednesday, November 14, 2007 9:06 AM

 nanaimo73 wrote:
By my count, only 3 of the "big eastern Railroads" made it to Peoria, NYC, PRR and NKP. NS still has the NKP west of Gibson City, and part of the NYC line (Bloomington-Champaign). You could include TP&W and IC if you wanted, both of which are still intact.

 

The PRR was the first one that came to mind.  I was reading an excellent book on the expansion and contraction of the PRR and related entities last night, and the author was talking about how the PRR (at first) envisioned the line to Peoria as a Chicago bypass, until other priorities rose to the forefront.

And, just working from (somewhat cloudy) memory, I don't believe that the NS line is intact all the way east from Peoria, any longer..perhaps they still get there, but not via the one time east bound main..  So with two down, that's what sparked my curiousity

I had thought that B&O  had at one time had a  (NW-SE running) line across Illinois that was abandoned too...wasn't sure if that was a Peoria route as well.

The old line from Pekin thru Tremont- who's line was that?

and, There is another line that ran due south out of Pekin,  toward Springfield...is that the IC line you mention?

There is also a line that runs from Morton thru Mackinaw..is that line still active?

thanks in advance

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