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Brush Painting A Model

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Brush Painting A Model
Posted by Ringo58 on Thursday, August 27, 2020 3:43 PM

Hello all! I recently recieved 2 of the SW7 shells I was after for months, thanks to a great user on here. They are undecorated and I would like to paint them for CNW and milwaukee road. I do not own an airbrush and do not have the money or space to set it up. Whats the best approach to hand paint these shells? what types/brands of paint would you guy reccomend? What style brush? 

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Posted by tin can on Thursday, August 27, 2020 3:56 PM

You might be surprised at the quality of a paint job you can get with a rattle can of spray paint.  I did an Angelina and Neches River GP38-2 with rattle cans; and an ANR caboose as well. The blue paint came from Lowes; a Rustoleum color.  The aluminum was a small Tamiya can I have had for a while.  I am painting some details on some mineral brown Santa Fe covered hoppers I am reworking with a red primer can I got from Walmart; it is almost an exact color match.  With a little weathering; the cars will be perfect.

Having said that, I have a long time friend who hand paints kitbashed MP shorty cabooses.  He does beautiful work.  I know there is an art and a methodology to brush painting; you might do a bit of research before diving in.

Regardless; good luck.  Paint can be stripped if need be; I use Super Clean from Walmart; a big bottle goes a long way and costs less than $10.00.  Have fun!

 

Remember the tin can; the MKT's central Texas branch...
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Posted by MisterBeasley on Thursday, August 27, 2020 3:58 PM

Rattle can spray paint is going to be way better than brush painting.  You can get pretty good straight lines by masking with painters' tape.  Decals can do a good job of logos and numbers.  I have found decals also work for thin stripes.

Also get some clear spray for sealing prior to and after decaling.

Don't brush paint trains.  Someone makes small rattle cans of Milwaukee orange, and most other colors.  It's worth the time to find the right paint.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

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Posted by Lastspikemike on Thursday, August 27, 2020 4:11 PM

Spray bomb is the way to go.  Airbrushing requires a lot more skill than a spray bomb.  Unless you need to mix a colour.  

Modern model paints are also amazingly free flowing. If you're careful with brush load and have a steady hand it is quite feasible to hand brush with these paints.  

Alyth Yard

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Posted by Ringo58 on Thursday, August 27, 2020 4:12 PM

MisterBeasley

Rattle can spray paint is going to be way better than brush painting.  You can get pretty good straight lines by masking with painters' tape.  Decals can do a good job of logos and numbers.  I have found decals also work for thin stripes.

Also get some clear spray for sealing prior to and after decaling.

Don't brush paint trains.  Someone makes small rattle cans of Milwaukee orange, and most other colors.  It's worth the time to find the right paint.

 

Thanks for the tips! Will look out for the correct colors. 

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, August 27, 2020 4:12 PM

Ringo58
I do not own an airbrush and do not have the money or space to set it up. Whats the best approach to hand paint these shells?

Considering the likely cost of hobby paint that is 'brushable' in the first place and the careful thinning to consistency, use of a good spray is trivial, and even a cheap airbrush driven off compressed air cans is better still.

Remember too that you would need quality brushes, and the time and care to keep them clean and shaped.  That alone is the end both of any big savings overall and any time savings at cleanup!

There have certainly been people who have successfully painted with a brush, and even more certainly people who weather with one.  But I have yet to see something smaller than about O gauge that doesn't show thick, irregular, or brush-mark artifacts when seen or imaged up close.

If all this does not convince you, there are YouTube videos on table paints and thinning techniques.  Be VERY certain to clean parting agent or surface contamination from undecorated shells ... after which surface priming orbpromoting, with what will likely be a relatively nasty activating agent, may be advisable -- be very careful with that, and don't think because you can't smell it that your ventilation is adequate!

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Posted by Ringo58 on Thursday, August 27, 2020 4:16 PM

tin can

You might be surprised at the quality of a paint job you can get with a rattle can of spray paint.  I did an Angelina and Neches River GP38-2 with rattle cans; and an ANR caboose as well. The blue paint came from Lowes; a Rustoleum color.  The aluminum was a small Tamiya can I have had for a while.  I am painting some details on some mineral brown Santa Fe covered hoppers I am reworking with a red primer can I got from Walmart; it is almost an exact color match.  With a little weathering; the cars will be perfect.

Having said that, I have a long time friend who hand paints kitbashed MP shorty cabooses.  He does beautiful work.  I know there is an art and a methodology to brush painting; you might do a bit of research before diving in.

Regardless; good luck.  Paint can be stripped if need be; I use Super Clean from Walmart; a big bottle goes a long way and costs less than $10.00.  Have fun!

 

 

I think I will try spray on one of them to test! Thanks for the tips and the shells!

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Posted by Lastspikemike on Thursday, August 27, 2020 4:41 PM

Easy test spray is primer in a can. You need to prime the whole shell anyway. To start out avoid trying to paint in one coat. Numerous very thin coats work best. Spray paint is very thin and the slightest excess amounts will run a short distance and then set up, you don't want that because you have to then remove the bump and start again.

Don't try to "save paint". Spray from a distance and spray past both ends of your pass. Begin spraying into empty space at the start of the pass and continue spraying after the end of the shell, that way the density of the spray actually landing on your model is consistent and not affected by the start and stop caused by pressing the button and then releasing it.

Alyth Yard

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Thursday, August 27, 2020 4:53 PM

Ringo58
. Whats the best approach to hand paint these shells?

It takes the proper tools and practice. I brush paint all my wargaming models, and I do not have brush marks at all.

1) The correct paint. Vallejo, Citadel, Turbo-Dork, Reaper-Pro, or similar paints are a must. These are water-soluable, but thinning them with water is not the best idea.

2) The correct thinner. I am now using Vallejo thinner for acrylic paints, and I am happy with it. All the prominent painters have their own recipes for "paint juice", but I have found the ready-mixed formula from Vallejo works well with all the paints I listed above.

Never use paints without thinning them first. Quality paints have a very high pigment load and can be thinned with no loss of performance.

3) The best brushes. I only use Winsor & Newton Series 7 hand made brushes imported from England and made with bristles harvested from Siberian Weasel tails. There are videos Winsor & Newton has on line about how these brushes are made.

4) Technique. Watch online videos and learn from the masters. Marike Reimer is my favorite painter, but there are many others. Games-Workshop used to have online how-to-paint videos, but they favor their brands over what might really be best.

Brush painting miniatures (which model trains are) is a hobby all on its own.

Overmod
 But I have yet to see something smaller than about O gauge that doesn't show thick, irregular, or brush-mark artifacts when seen or imaged up close.

Point out the brush marks.

-Kevin

Wink Happily modeling my STRATTON & GILLETTE RAILROAD. A Class A line located in a personal fantasy world of semi-plausible nonsense on Tuesday, August 3rd, 1954.

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Posted by Ringo58 on Thursday, August 27, 2020 4:56 PM

Overmod

 

 
Ringo58
I do not own an airbrush and do not have the money or space to set it up. Whats the best approach to hand paint these shells?

 

Considering the likely cost of hobby paint that is 'brushable' in the first place and the careful thinning to consistency, use of a good spray is trivial, and even a cheap airbrush driven off compressed air cans is better still.

 

Remember too that you would need quality brushes, and the time and care to keep them clean and shaped.  That alone is the end both of any big savings overall and any time savings at cleanup!

There have certainly been people who have successfully painted with a brush, and even more certainly people who weather with one.  But I have yet to see something smaller than about O gauge that doesn't show thick, irregular, or brush-mark artifacts when seen or imaged up close.

If all this does not convince you, there are YouTube videos on table paints and thinning techniques.  Be VERY certain to clean parting agent or surface contamination from undecorated shells ... after which surface priming orbpromoting, with what will likely be a relatively nasty activating agent, may be advisable -- be very careful with that, and don't think because you can't smell it that your ventilation is adequate!

 

I just cant buy an airbrush right now even though I really do want one and learn how to use one. I will definitly use one in the future, but for now I am limited to rattle cans and brush. I have had very good luck with weathering with a brush  (well to me I'm very happy with what I've done). 

Overmod

 

 
 and don't think because you can't smell it that your ventilation is adequate!
 

I've learned that being in the auto industy. Especially with brake clean 

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Posted by Ringo58 on Thursday, August 27, 2020 5:00 PM

SeeYou190

 

 
 

1) The correct paint. Vallejo, Citadel, Turbo-Dork, Reaper-Pro, or similar paints are a must. These are water-soluable, but thinning them with water is not the best idea.

 

 
 

Thanks for the help Kevin! Thats a great looking...thing! Is it a ghost train? At first glance I thought it was a ship but it has wheels! Super cool whatever it is

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Posted by Ringo58 on Thursday, August 27, 2020 5:02 PM

Lastspikemike

Spray bomb is the way to go.  

Is that a brand or a term for spray paint?

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Posted by Ringo58 on Thursday, August 27, 2020 5:05 PM

Lastspikemike

Easy test spray is primer in a can. You need to prime the whole shell anyway. To start out avoid trying to paint in one coat. Numerous very thin coats work best. Spray paint is very thin and the slightest excess amounts will run a short distance and then set up, you don't want that because you have to then remove the bump and start again.

Don't try to "save paint". Spray from a distance and spray past both ends of your pass. Begin spraying into empty space at the start of the pass and continue spraying after the end of the shell, that way the density of the spray actually landing on your model is consistent and not affected by the start and stop caused by pressing the button and then releasing it.

 

Ive used that technique for years building model cars. I went to paint a bachmann sd40 shell last year and it did not turn out well. I guess I forgot the techniqe and will practice more on that shell. Thanks for the tips!

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Thursday, August 27, 2020 5:05 PM

Ringo58
Thanks for the help Kevin! Thats a great looking...thing! Is it a ghost train? At first glance I thought it was a ship but it has wheels! Super cool whatever it is

I added a lot to my earlier post.

The model is a Vampire Black Coach made from an Imperial Steam Tank. On the rear deck there is a vertical boiler walking beam steam engine that I built from scratch. I also built a tender for it.

That model came in 11th at the 2004 Games-Workshop Golden Daemon painting contest Large Model category in Atlanta, Georgia.

-Kevin

Wink Happily modeling my STRATTON & GILLETTE RAILROAD. A Class A line located in a personal fantasy world of semi-plausible nonsense on Tuesday, August 3rd, 1954.

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Posted by Ringo58 on Thursday, August 27, 2020 5:11 PM

SeeYou190

That model came in 11th at the 2004 Games-Workshop Golden Daemon painting contest Large Model category in Atlanta, Georgia.

-Kevin

 

 
Only 11th?! Thats seriously awesome work
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Posted by SeeYou190 on Thursday, August 27, 2020 5:14 PM

Ringo58
Only 11th?! Thats seriously awesome work

You need to be best of the best to win a Games Workshop Golden Daemon. I have entered five times and never reached the top tiers.

This is not the best picture, but the Slovakian BF-109 has a green and yellow hood section that is completely brush painted. No brush marks at all. The propeller spinner is also hand painted.

On this model, I also brush painted the canopy frame to try it. I will never do that again!

It can be done, and it is a good tool to have in your skill-set, but be prepared for a lot of frustration as you go.

It is like drywall taping, I have gotten pretty good at it, but there were a few frustrating days this week as I made lots of mistakes.

-Kevin

Wink Happily modeling my STRATTON & GILLETTE RAILROAD. A Class A line located in a personal fantasy world of semi-plausible nonsense on Tuesday, August 3rd, 1954.

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Posted by Ringo58 on Thursday, August 27, 2020 5:26 PM

Thats a real nice bf109, Kevin. I alway wanted to model a kamikaze attack with one of these and a B17. Wild stories of these things with reinforced wings cutting b17s in half. Cool story of a B17 landing with a BF109 stuck in its fuselage. Sky tanks those B17s were. I guess they call them flyingfortresses for a reason! 

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Thursday, August 27, 2020 5:36 PM

DSchmitt
Brush Painting an On30 Steam Locomotive

That is a good video. That Liquitex Black Gesso is like magic. I was pleased he gave the wargamers props for the methods. He had brush marks in the gesso, but if he would have used the same sable brushes he used for the painting that would not have happened.

He warmed his dark gray "black" with orange, I use red, but either way it was nice to see someone stating the importance of a warm dark gray.

He also thinned his paint. I am sure if he would have used Vallejo paints and thinner it would have been even better.

His use of Future Floor Wax was spot-on for pre-decal prepping.

All-in-all, a lot of good stuff was presented in that video.

-Kevin

Wink Happily modeling my STRATTON & GILLETTE RAILROAD. A Class A line located in a personal fantasy world of semi-plausible nonsense on Tuesday, August 3rd, 1954.

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Posted by dstarr on Thursday, August 27, 2020 7:49 PM

Spray paint your model from a rattle can.  Here is one of my rattle can painted locomotives.  Dark gray auto primer, both Krylon and Rustoleum work well.

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Posted by MisterBeasley on Thursday, August 27, 2020 9:29 PM

Scalecoat makes Milwaukee Road orange, by the way.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Thursday, August 27, 2020 9:38 PM

Ringo58
Those are great videos. I actully watched the steam locomotive video earlier today!

The On30 locomotive video was great, especially since the modeller uses the same desk mat I do!

-Kevin

Wink Happily modeling my STRATTON & GILLETTE RAILROAD. A Class A line located in a personal fantasy world of semi-plausible nonsense on Tuesday, August 3rd, 1954.

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Posted by doctorwayne on Thursday, August 27, 2020 11:11 PM

About 40 years ago, I brush-painted these two modified Athearn Blue Box geeps, to match their prototypes, using Polly S paints (not the later and much improved PollyScale)....

 

Except for the number boards and the black pinstripes on the pilots, all of the lettering is painted. 
Not too long after that, I did another two or three dozen in the same manner, before switching over to an airbrush for the last three dozen-or-so.

I used a good-quality brush and a decent paint that self-levelled before drying, so there are no brush marks.  Many paints nowadays dry more rapidly, sometimes resulting in visible brush marks, while others self-level quickly, before beginning to dry.
While it didn't take too long to become accustomed to using an airbrush, I still struggle with spray cans, and try to avoid using them.  The only exception that has worked well for me was Tamiya's Grey Primer in a spray can, which yielded results close to those achieved with an airbrush.  I can't say if Tamiya colours as sprays are comparable, as I've not used them, but I did get good results applying some Tamiya colours with a brush.

Regardless of whether you choose to brush-paint or spray-paint the final colours, I strongly suggest that you prime those locomotives with the Tamiya spray primer.  Make sure that it's fully-cured (no odour) before applying the final colours.

Wayne

 

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Posted by Lastspikemike on Friday, August 28, 2020 6:55 AM

Ringo58

 

 
Lastspikemike

Spray bomb is the way to go.  

 

 

Is that a brand or a term for spray paint?

 

Spray bomb = Rattle can. We mostly call them bombs because they are. See warning on the can about exposing to heat!!!

I second the Tamiya primer recommendation. That stuff is magic. If you're after a flat grey final colour the Tamiya primer is good enough as a finish coat. I used it as a final coat to mimic anodizing on some camo painted aluminum arrow shafts I used as model sailing yacht masts and spars. 

Tamiya primer is  nice and thin, doesn't run very easily and creates a very good bond between the unpainted surface and the final finish coat.

Before painting it is well worth giving the unpainted surface a thorough clean. I have good success using isopropyl alcohol (either pure 99% or 70% rubbing version seem to work equally well) followed by ordinary hand dishwashing soap  and water and a clear water rinse. Even after careful hand drying it's worth letting the model also dry in the air for an hour or more before applying primer.

I also second the recommendation to let that primer coat dry completely before applying a finish coat. I generally leave the primer for 24 hours minimum to dry.

Tamiya primer highlights any imperfections you may not have noticed on the plain shell which  allows you to see and correct them before the final finish highlights them permanently.

I use gloss colours if I intend to apply decals then I dull kote the final product, including of course the fitted decals which I first spray with a light coat of decal fixer,  to give that final flat look which  seems to look best for these models. Any weathering can be done either before or after applying the dull kote. I generally apply a light coat of more dull kote over any weathering. 

For precision masking Tamiya makes excellent model sized masking tape in several model sized widths, including a pretty nifty flexible plastic tape useful for curves. It's pricey but well worth it. I use it to mark the line and then apply ordinary painters tape on top of the Tamiya to mask any larger background areas.

One technique I did not think of  to use but have seen or read about somewhere is used for precise colour separation lines.  When painting the second colour making up the colour change  line you first spray the masked line with the first colour on top of the masking tape before spraying the second colour. The theory is that this seals the edge of the masking tape with the first colour. If any of that first colour seeps or bleeds under the tape it won't matter because it matches the hidden colour. I have not yet used this technique but it seems logical that it would  work to leave a very sharp colour line.

Alyth Yard

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Posted by Ringo58 on Friday, August 28, 2020 9:01 AM

As always thanks for all the great information guys. Is there a one stop shop for all this stuff?

Heres a 40' boxcar I practiced some more weathering on. Was my project for last night. Added 33" steel wheels and removed the old coupler box and replaced it with kadee #5s. Still need to work out the coupler height on the SW7

I went a little heavy in some parts that I need to go back and touch up, over all I am pleased with how this BB athearned turned out. Now I need to order paint and while I am waiting I need to get the layout to 80% completion.

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Friday, August 28, 2020 9:12 AM

Ringo58
Is there a one stop shop for all this stuff?

Not really.

I have been getting my Vallejo Paints online from Mega Hobby. They carry everything. Their prices are not the best, but I have never had a problem with stock levels or service from them.

Tamiya I used to buy at local hobby shops, but that is no longer an option.

Citadel Paints are available at any game store that sells Games-Workshop products.

Winsor & Newton Series 7 brushes can be purchased at Dick Blick Art Supply online, as long as they are not banned from import, which happens from time to time.

Ringo58
Heres a 40' boxcar I practiced some more weathering on.

That looks very good. Nice work. I hope you share some of that in Weekend Photo Fun.

Ringo58
Was my project for last night. Added 33" steel wheels and removed the old coupler box and replaced it with kadee #5s.

In case you have not seen it, I posted a thread with my Athearn Blue Box assembly techniques here:

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/p/271360/3082289.aspx

Hmmm... the click link is not working. WHY CAN'T I GET LINKS TO WORK?

This might work:

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/p/271360/3082289.aspx

-Kevin

Wink Happily modeling my STRATTON & GILLETTE RAILROAD. A Class A line located in a personal fantasy world of semi-plausible nonsense on Tuesday, August 3rd, 1954.

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Posted by Ringo58 on Friday, August 28, 2020 9:17 AM

Ill have to check the one hobby shop a few minutes down the road. He has a big slection of games stuff along with tons of NOS HO stuff from the early 2000s 

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Posted by Ringo58 on Friday, August 28, 2020 9:18 AM

SeeYou190

 

 

 
Ringo58
Heres a 40' boxcar I practiced some more weathering on.

 

That looks very good. Nice work. I hope you share some of that in Weekend Photo Fun.

-Kevin

 

I forgot it was friday!

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Posted by Lastspikemike on Friday, August 28, 2020 9:28 AM

".. the click link is not working. WHY CAN'T I GET LINKS TO WORK?"

It seems to be a random software fault at  the forum end. It doesn't seem to matter whether you use the direct copy and paste method or the "tool" allowing inserting of a URL into your post.

I have noted that posting internal links to other pages in these forums frequently does not work.

I hope you can appreciate the humour of your post where the link you thought did not work actually did while the same link refused to work correctly the second time you tried in the very same post.

It is baffling and mildly irritating.

Many of my failed attempts have been corrected by other users, thanks to them for that help.

Nobody has yet explained this inexplicable random error.

Alyth Yard

Canada

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