ATLANTIC CENTRAL richhotrain ATLANTIC CENTRAL richhotrain Great thread, Sheldon! A classic, for sure. Rich Thanks, now if I can just sell the excess real estate, and get past the global disaster, I will go hide in the basement and build the layout. Remember, I'm a carpenter, benchwork is a breeze......... Sheldon If I lived closer, and owned an N95 mask, I would drive over and help you with the benchwork. Rich can supply the mask...... As of this morning we only have 34 confirmed cases in the whole county, but, to be fair, there are only three small towns and not a building over four stories in the whole county either..... Sheldon
richhotrain ATLANTIC CENTRAL richhotrain Great thread, Sheldon! A classic, for sure. Rich Thanks, now if I can just sell the excess real estate, and get past the global disaster, I will go hide in the basement and build the layout. Remember, I'm a carpenter, benchwork is a breeze......... Sheldon If I lived closer, and owned an N95 mask, I would drive over and help you with the benchwork. Rich can supply the mask......
ATLANTIC CENTRAL richhotrain Great thread, Sheldon! A classic, for sure. Rich Thanks, now if I can just sell the excess real estate, and get past the global disaster, I will go hide in the basement and build the layout. Remember, I'm a carpenter, benchwork is a breeze......... Sheldon
richhotrain Great thread, Sheldon! A classic, for sure. Rich
Great thread, Sheldon!
A classic, for sure.
Rich
Thanks, now if I can just sell the excess real estate, and get past the global disaster, I will go hide in the basement and build the layout.
Remember, I'm a carpenter, benchwork is a breeze.........
Sheldon
If I lived closer, and owned an N95 mask, I would drive over and help you with the benchwork.
Rich can supply the mask......
As of this morning we only have 34 confirmed cases in the whole county, but, to be fair, there are only three small towns and not a building over four stories in the whole county either.....
Alton Junction
I am bumping this to the top in rsponse to an inquiry about my new layout plans.
Thanks, Sheldon.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
ATLANTIC CENTRALI am bumping this to the top in rsponse to an inquiry about my new layout plans.
How is the track plan coming along?
I guarantee you it is at least 100% better than mine is!
-Kevin
Living the dream.
The layout plan is complete, but not redrawn in a scale and format that would allow it to be legibly scanned and published. I'm working on that.
The drawing is 1/2" scale, pencil on mylar, full of notes and such and fills a 24x36 sheet. Basically a development drawing, but accurate enough that I could build it from that.
I am working on a three part larger scale version that will scan and publish better. While I have the ability, I dislike CAD or other drafting software, and I can't even imagine trying to draw this track plan on any of those trackplanning software packages. Those things make me nuts.
I am in the middle of my home improvements, moving a bathroom and building a walk-in closet where the bathroom was. The closet is done. The bathroom is roughed in but also requires reworking and replacing most of the 56 year old plumbing in the basement, made some progress on that today.
The plumbing project also includes adding a work sink to the model train shop area in the basement, and moving some sloppy plumbing from a later addition that would limit benchwork in one corner.
As soon as the plumbing is in place, about 1/3 of the basement will be ready for ceiling/lighting, workshop area setup, and benchwork.
Next home improvement project is bookshelves in my office to get the train library (at least most of it) out of the layout space.
Some of the other personal and business issues that had my time tied up are also now getting worked out.
I really wanted to have the track plan published by now, but drafting time has been limited by higher priorities.
PS - still having some operational problems posting today, unable to add quotes?
That was a much longer answer than I anticipated.
I was wondering if you had settled on a basic layout shape for your new space. It took me a while to decide what it was best for me to do in my 11 by 22 space I have available.
Looking forward to seeing a full set of plans, Sheldon. You are going to need to start a layout build thread.
SeeYou190 That was a much longer answer than I anticipated. I was wondering if you had settled on a basic layout shape for your new space. It took me a while to decide what it was best for me to do in my 11 by 22 space I have available. -Kevin
Kevin,
I will make a simple drawing of the space, and the layout shape, maybe even with a simple layout of the mainline, and see if I can post it in a day or two.
The basement is L shaped, with the longest dimensions being 42'x38'.
The simple description is that the layout goes around the walls and has two peninsulas, but the total shape is controlled by the "L" of the room, a fireplace foundation and a small area for utilities, boiler, water heater, well tank, etc.
Looks like it might be a quiet weekend, I will see what I can do.
richhotrain Looking forward to seeing a full set of plans, Sheldon. You are going to need to start a layout build thread. Rich
Yes, I would love to get it posted for everyone to see. Working on several ways that might happen. Stay tuned.....
ATLANTIC CENTRAL ...I can't speak to the "average" size of the "average" layout. But here in the Mid Atlantic, where even modest homes often come with a nearly "free" 1200 to 1800 sq ft space called a basement, many unfinished, I have seen a lot of layouts that "fill" at least most of that space. I cannot speak to the situation in other areas of the country....... My current layout space for the last 20 years has been a bonus room above my detached garage/workshop, about 1,000 sq ft on the second floor, heated and cooled.
...I can't speak to the "average" size of the "average" layout. But here in the Mid Atlantic, where even modest homes often come with a nearly "free" 1200 to 1800 sq ft space called a basement, many unfinished, I have seen a lot of layouts that "fill" at least most of that space.
I cannot speak to the situation in other areas of the country.......
My current layout space for the last 20 years has been a bonus room above my detached garage/workshop, about 1,000 sq ft on the second floor, heated and cooled.
Sheldon,
A basement is a luxury one can ill afford in Phoenix. The ground is called "caliche clay." According to Stephen Reynolds of Arizona State University's School of Earth and Space Exploration, “Caliche is a layer-like accumulation of calcium carbonate that is deposited as part of the formation of soil in arid regions.” Think in terms of naturally existing concrete.
Trying to dig a basement out of this stuff would probably add 50% to the total cost of the house, so almost everyone here has concrete slab foundations. If I had that kind of money I'd lease one of the many vacant commercial spaces nearby.
That leaves us with little space to negotiate from our spouses. That left me with room for a 3'–9" x 5'–10" free-standing layout design. That, in turn, moves me to N scale, leaving the larger HO collection in plastic storage bins, presumably waiting for the estate sale someday.
But I have not seen snow since the last time I visited my in-laws in Massachusetts. On this December 18 the high temperature today will be 65°F and the low tonight 42°F. Nor have I experienced any tornadoes, hurricanes, or earthquakes like the one that drove us out of L.A. in 1994.
We make do with what we have, I guess.
Regards,Bruce
Neptune48 ATLANTIC CENTRAL ...I can't speak to the "average" size of the "average" layout. But here in the Mid Atlantic, where even modest homes often come with a nearly "free" 1200 to 1800 sq ft space called a basement, many unfinished, I have seen a lot of layouts that "fill" at least most of that space. I cannot speak to the situation in other areas of the country....... My current layout space for the last 20 years has been a bonus room above my detached garage/workshop, about 1,000 sq ft on the second floor, heated and cooled. Sheldon, A basement is a luxury one can ill afford in Phoenix. The ground is called "caliche clay." According to Stephen Reynolds of Arizona State University's School of Earth and Space Exploration, “Caliche is a layer-like accumulation of calcium carbonate that is deposited as part of the formation of soil in arid regions.” Think in terms of naturally existing concrete. Trying to dig a basement out of this stuff would probably add 50% to the total cost of the house, so almost everyone here has concrete slab foundations. If I had that kind of money I'd lease one of the many vacant commercial spaces nearby. That leaves us with little space to negotiate from our spouses. That left me with room for a 3'–9" x 5'–10" free-standing layout design. That, in turn, moves me to N scale, leaving the larger HO collection in plastic storage bins, presumably waiting for the estate sale someday. But I have not seen snow since the last time I visited my in-laws in Massachusetts. On this December 18 the high temperature today will be 65°F and the low tonight 42°F. Nor have I experienced any tornadoes, hurricanes, or earthquakes like the one that drove us out of L.A. in 1994. We make do with what we have, I guess. Regards,Bruce
Bruce, being in the construction field myself, I am well aware how climate and geography effect housing construction and features.
Here in the Mid Atlantic, foundations must be below the 30" 100 year frost depth, so 36" deep foundations are required. Once you have dug a 3' deep hole, and cleared out at least a 2' deep crawl space, it does not cost much more to make the hole 8' deep and add 5' of height to the walls.
And new codes require even crawl spaces to have concrete "rat slab" floors, and insulated walls, so the extra cost of a basement has gotten even smaller in the last 15-20 years.
It maybe adds 10%, more like 5% in most cases, to housing costs here.
The other beauties of basements:
It already has a roof you were going to build anyway.
It is in the 55 degree earth, so the heating and cooling load of using it as living space is very economical.
They don't usually have many pesky windows to get in the way of layout design.
I admit, I am a die hard Easterner, you could not drag me to Phoenix, or LA, or Texas.
I like the green scenery in summer, I like the change in the seasons, I like the fall colors.
People talk about LA, but here where we are, I can be at the ocean in two hours or in the mountains in two hours as well.
My last layout was not in a basement. It was in the second floor of a detached garage workshop I designed and built. But there is a fun irony in that my retirement home has more layout space than my "dream home" from when I was 40.
ATLANTIC CENTRALPS - still having some operational problems posting today, unable to add quotes?
I think there is a "sticky" in the general topics forum that says there will be problems on the 17th.
I'm also waiting to see your plan, Sheldon. I've been anticipating it for a while.
Mike.
My You Tube
mbinsewi ATLANTIC CENTRAL PS - still having some operational problems posting today, unable to add quotes? I think there is a "sticky" in the general topics forum that says there will be problems on the 17th. I'm also waiting to see your plan, Sheldon. I've been anticipating it for a while. Mike.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL PS - still having some operational problems posting today, unable to add quotes?
Thanks Mike, here is photo of the development drawing. Not sure if this is anything people can understand.
Better drawings are in the works.
That is a nice long mainline run.
It looks like you have made excellent use of the space.
ATLANTIC CENTRALhere is photo of the development drawing. Not sure if this is anything people can understand.
Hi Sheldon,
The overall plan is quite understandable. It looks like a great layout! I'm really looking forward to being able to watch it come to fruition.
Cheers!!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
hon30critter ATLANTIC CENTRAL here is photo of the development drawing. Not sure if this is anything people can understand. Hi Sheldon, The overall plan is quite understandable. It looks like a great layout! I'm really looking forward to being able to watch it come to fruition. Cheers!! Dave
ATLANTIC CENTRAL here is photo of the development drawing. Not sure if this is anything people can understand.
Thank you Dave, glad you could make some sense of it.
Better drawings on the way.
SeeYou190 That is a nice long mainline run. It looks like you have made excellent use of the space. -Kevin
The visible mainline run is about 250'. There are two view block scenes designed to divide the visible portion into three distict areas, to create a feel of greater distance.
This is done with a single loop helix on each peninsula. The train disappears just long enough to feel like it traveled a while thru unseen country before it reappears on the other side of the view block. But not so long as to make it feel "lost".
The goal is to make the visible 4 scale mile portion feel like 20-25 miles as it leads up to the small city/divison point yard, and then leaves for locations not modeled.
Off stage there will be extensive staging and on stage multiple exits/entrances to staging will simulate various junctions and interchanges.
Progress is good on drawings that will publish well here on the forum.
The more detailed drawings have only required a few changes from the original developement drawing shown above.
Some of the desired staging tracks simply did not fit, so I had a backup plan for that which adds a little more construction complexity, and a little length to the hidden mainline. But we do what we have to do.
Work continues in the basement getting it ready for layout construction.
More soon,
UPDATE: The track plan should be ready for electronic publication this week.
Your comments will be welcomed, and your input on a few final details will be requested.
Stay tuned.
ATLANTIC CENTRALStay tuned.
Standing by...
ATLANTIC CENTRALThe track plan should be ready for electronic publication this week.
You certainly know how to get us sitting on the edge of our seats and biting our nails!!
Seriously, I'm really looking forward to seeing your plan.
And without any further delay, here is the track plan:
So, before I go any farther, we all need to thank our own Robert Petrick here on the forum for taking my hand drawn developement drawings and producing these beautiful CAD images. He has the patience of a saint, and is very skilled.
A few notes:
There are some added details to be worked out, and I will be asking for your suggestions and comments - more on that later.
From anywhere that you stand looking, the layout is viewed as if you are looking north, to your left is west, to your right is east.
The long dimensions of the room are 42'-6" x 38'-3", the squares are 2'.
The dispatchers panel will be in recessed area directly across from the swing bridge scene. Other control panel locations will be added later.
The backdrops shown will not be tall, they will not block a normal person's view across the room. They will generally limit your view of the scene on the other side.
The "zero" track elevation will most likely end up being 36" or 38", making the main yard 40"-42", and the highest track around about 48".
There are some 32" curves in the hidden trackage of the WESTERN MARYLAND, all ACR mainline trackage is 36" radius and above, many curves are well into the mid and high 40's.
Maximum grade - 2%, many are less.
Right now the names on the plan are for reference only, there is no attempt to model actual places.
Feel free to copy and paste the drawing so you can inlarge it as you might need.
Please offer your comments and questions. I will follow up later with some of the things I would like suggestions on.
Thanks to all for your interest,
That is a lot of hidden staging! I can see how you are going to get enough traffic to simulate a heavy use double track mainline.
Robert did a masterful job on the track plan.
I am considering adding a coal mine somewhere on the Brunswick peninsula, your thoughts on how and where are welcomed.
Also looking to add a few more general industries without cluttering up the mainline.
Your thoughts?
Here's a link to a .PDF version of Sheldon's layout.
Atlantic Central Railroad
Might be a little clearer because you can zoom in and pan around to see the details and read the text and whatnot.
Hope this helps.
Robert
LINK to SNSR Blog
ROBERT PETRICKMight be a little clearer because you can zoom in and pan around to see the details and read the text and whatnot. Hope this helps.
That helped a lot! Thank you.
ATLANTIC CENTRALAnd without any further delay, here is the track plan:
That's impressive Sheldon!
ATLANTIC CENTRALPlease offer your comments
Okay, here goes:
When I designed the track plan for my old club, one of the things I feel that I got wrong was the number and size of the industrial sidings. The plan had two large yards that could easily accomodate several long freight trains but none of the sidings were anywhere near that long. For local freight operations that was fine because there were several destinations that a couple of cars could be delivered to. However, there were no locations that could handle unit trains off of the mainlines.
Here is my question: Do you have enough destinations that you can take those trains to that can accommodate larger numbers of cars in a single cut? Certainly with respect to passenger trains that is not a problem. You have several large passenger stations. But what about freight train destinations?
I realize that I am asking this question without having a detailed understanding of how the layout will operate. Maybe I'm focused too much on local freight operations.
hon30critter ATLANTIC CENTRAL And without any further delay, here is the track plan: That's impressive Sheldon! ATLANTIC CENTRAL Please offer your comments Okay, here goes: When I designed the track plan for my old club, one of the things I feel that I got wrong was the number and size of the industrial sidings. The plan had two large yards that could easily accomodate several long freight trains but none of the sidings were anywhere near that long. For local freight operations that was fine because there were several destinations that a couple of cars could be delivered to. However, there were no locations that could handle unit trains off of the mainlines. Here is my question: Do you have enough destinations that you can take those trains to that can accommodate larger numbers of cars in a single cut? Certainly with respect to passenger trains that is not a problem. You have several large passenger stations. But what about freight train destinations? I realize that I am asking this question without having a detailed understanding of how the layout will operate. Maybe I'm focused too much on local freight operations. Cheers!! Dave
ATLANTIC CENTRAL And without any further delay, here is the track plan:
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Please offer your comments
OK Dave, I think I understand the question.
So first I should explain the basic theory of operation.
Hopefully everyone is clear on the hidden staging. There are 22 mainline train length hidden staging tracks on the ATLANTIC CENTRAL trackage and 3 on the WESTERN MARYLAND trackage.
12 of the ACR staging tracks are "thru" staging, 10 are the stub end yard on the wye.
There are 4 locations where it is expected that trains will be staged in view.
There are some cutoff turnouts (not visible on the plan because we did not show the details of the staging under the passenger terminal) that convert two of the long tracks into 4 short staging tracks.
So, depending on train length, that is either 29 or 31 staged trains. Typical full length freight train 20', or about 35-40 averge cars + motive power. Some tracks are longer.
Since Dave asked about local switching, I will focus there first.
A freight train will arrive at the yard, from the east or west. It will contain cars destined for industries located in or near the city.
As you may have noticed, most of the industries shown so far are located directly off the two yard leads which also function as belt lines to those industries. So the the incoming train will be broken up as needed for delivery of those cars to their respective east and west end belt line industries.
Additionally, cars destined for Commonwealth Motors will be blocked and set up for that local run which requires going out on the main for a short distance.
While setting out these cars, pickups wil be made and returned to the yard for makeup into outbound trains.
Right now there are only industrial sidings for about 25 or 30 cars, not counting the piggyback yard which will hold about 35 to 40 50' and 40' piggyback flats. The piggyback operation is simple, whole trains pull in, get switched into the piggy yard as others get switched out to the main yard for departure.
So I am looking to increase the number of industrial spots a little bit, but I do not want to clutter the mainline with a lot of sidings.
Ideally I would like to have spots for about 10-20 more cars in the urban area.
So Dave, the layout is designed to support industrial switching, but not as a primary focus.
Much of the operations will be bridge traffic that will run thru, or only stop for power changes. Another common operating scheme involves trains that set out only part of their train, and pick up an outbound block of cars.
During a full crew operating session, the mainline traffic will be controlled by a Dispatcher and a simplified version of CTC with signals. The mainline will support as many as three trains in each direction at the same time depending on train length and type.
Passenger operations will be an important factor. Nearly a third of the staged trains will be passenger trains. There will be some switching operations for RPO, express, and a few trains will originate/terminate here, and need switching.
So yes, I am looking to add a few more sidings/industries, but the desire is to limit their impact on the mainline.
ATLANTIC CENTRALSo yes, I am looking to add a few more sidings/industries, but the desire is to limit their impact on the mainline.
Thanks for explaining your operations. I now have a much better understanding of what the primary operations will consist of. I hadn't recognised the potential for switching large cuts of cars from train to train, especially where passenger trains are concerned. Quite frankly, I don't recall studying such a large layout before so I apologise for my lack of understanding. My criticisms were naive. I should have known better! Your operations will be impressive and they will be of a size that most modelers can only dream of.