Running the combine right behind the engine is completely prototypical - and as I've noted, in areas where it got cold, it would be required during the cold weather months if the combine used steam heat. No way to get steam from the engine back to a passenger car when they're separated by standard (i.e., not equipped with steam lines) freight cars. However, an old combine with it's own coal burning Franklin stove could be at the front or rear of the train, as it didn't need the engine's steam to keep the passengers warm.
John-NYBWI have debated whether to turn the combine. There are small turntables at both ends of the branch to turn the loco so I could turn the combine if I choose to do so. Since it will usually be the only passenger car in the consist, I'm not sure that will be necessary.
On the other hand, turning a combine in this situation would be virtually 100% not prototypical. About the only cars ever turned were observation cars, where the observation platform needed to be on the back, or situations like New York Central trains along the 'Water Level Route' where corridor sleepers were turned so the side with the passengers faced the Hudson river whether going (timetable) east or west.
Remember, coaches or combines had some version of "walkover" seats - the seats could be turned (either the whole seat turned 180 degrees, or the back moved from one side to the other) so the seats always faced forward. On a model, you could make the seats be in pairs facing each other (like you'd see in a 12-1 Pullman car for example) so some passenger are facing forward and some facing back.
John-NYBWAll of that adds extra moves and extra time.
On the other hand if they have to switch the freight cars with air on them, that would take a lot more time than make one or two extra moves.
In addition, if it involves a grade, I don't think they would risk setting out the passenger car where it isn't flat.
Don't necessarily buy that since lots of railroads operated mixed trains with the passenger eqipment on the rear, which would mean they would have to leave the passenger car on the grade EVERY place they switched where there was a grade (which is more likely than not).
The bottom line is that you want to put the combine on the head end, you have found a prototype, you don't have to justify it. Go for it.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
wjstix On the other hand, turning a combine in this situation would be virtually 100% not prototypical.
On the other hand, turning a combine in this situation would be virtually 100% not prototypical.
The key phrase here is "in this situation". The combine being the sole passenger car, turning it seems unecessary. However, if a combine is a head end car in an ordinary passenger train, wouldn't it be turned so the passenger section is at the rear and not separated from the coaches and sleepers by the baggage/express section?
John-NYBW The key phrase here is "in this situation". The combine being the sole passenger car, turning it seems unecessary. However, if a combine is a head end car in an ordinary passenger train, wouldn't it be turned so the passenger section is at the rear and not separated from the coaches and sleepers by the baggage/express section?
Combination cars are generally used on low traffic lines/trains where there's not enough traffic demand to require a full car.
If you were running a train with a combine and a regular coach (because you needed a bit more rider capacity but not baggage), if you didn't turn anything, all it does is move the baggage section to the rear of the train instead of the front, and there's no rule for/against that.
Not really any reason to individually turn or switch around the cars. Just handle them as a set and turn (or not turn) them as a set, not one by one.
I mean we're talking about a minor branchline terminus here, you're not turning an overnight streamliner.
In the passenger terminal that makes up the train, you'd either turn the combine to be oriented to the other cars (and put the baggage section at a specific end), or simply place them in the correct order so that they align (and not worry about whether the baggage is on the front or rear of the train). But all the discussion has been about operations at the remote branch terminal, not the central hub, so you're not switching things around, just send the same set back.
Chris van der Heide
My Algoma Central Railway Modeling Blog
Sometimes you will see a passenger train with the combine turned so the baggage compartment is between the coach portion of the combine and the rest of the passenger cars. If its in the southern USA, pre-1960's that could be a "Jim Crow" arrangement, with the baggage compartment separating white and black seating on the train.
Interesting article in the new (Sept.) Model Railroader about a Santa Fe branch. A crewman who worked the prototype branch said that when the mixed came to a town where they had more than a few switching moves, the combine was spotted at the depot for unloading, moved out of the way during switching, then spotted back at the depot for loading.
MidlandMike Interesting article in the new (Sept.) Model Railroader about a Santa Fe branch. A crewman who worked the prototype branch said that when the mixed came to a town where they had more than a few switching moves, the combine was spotted at the depot for unloading, moved out of the way during switching, then spotted back at the depot for loading.
On my layout, there are two towns on the branch, one at the terminus and one about halfway up the branch. The town at the midpoint has four industries that might require switching but it would be unusual for all four to require service on any particular day, so switching there would be minimal. At the terminus, the freight cars would be dropped in the yard as the train enters town and the loco would then pull the combine down the street to the depot. Having the combine on the front of the train makes that move simpler and faster. After unloading passengers and express, the combine is then pushed out of the way and the loco does its pick ups and set outs. When the cars have been assembled for the return trip, the combine is pushed back to the depot and then the rest of the train is backed up to couple with it.
I was searching for pictures of combines in actually service and there seems to be very few such pictures. Most of the pictures are either of museum pieces or models. I did come across this unusual observation combine on the Rock Island. Anybody know what the story is here?
RI 70, Topeka, KS., Richard R. Wallin, 7-23-61.jpg (950×511)
John-NYBW wjstix On the other hand, turning a combine in this situation would be virtually 100% not prototypical. The key phrase here is "in this situation". The combine being the sole passenger car, turning it seems unecessary. However, if a combine is a head end car in an ordinary passenger train, wouldn't it be turned so the passenger section is at the rear and not separated from the coaches and sleepers by the baggage/express section?
My understanding is that in the post WWII era, railroads started to drop observation cars from all but their premier trains because of the added burden of turning them at the end of each trip. That would explain a surplus of obs cars but why would they want to convert one to a baggage express. Wouldn't that require them to turn the obs for the mail train just as was done for passenger cars or might they just run the obs backward on a mail train since there would be no need for passengers to move from one car to the next.
That CRIP obs is not an RPO, it's a baggage express combine (note the sign "Railway Express Agency").
So, when this car was modified to include an express section, did it become a head-end car?
-Kevin
Living the dream.