Trains.com

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Walthers new code 83 track and Turnouts

5519 views
43 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 22,090 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Friday, July 16, 2021 10:10 AM

Overmod
 
riogrande5761
I've read a number of folks who had the Walthers double cross-overs report they had issues with them... 

This is one of those little things that gall me, like using the phrase "Studies have shown..." 

If you can't (or Kalmbach won't let you) provide the original source references, you owe it to us to recap what the 'issues with them' were reported to be.

(This is not a personal 'dig' -- just a plea that if you report there are problems, go ahead and report what the problems are actually said to be.) 

I'll jump in here.

At one time, I had three Walthers Shinohara Double Crossovers on my layout. The biggest issue was power losses. I had to wire all four ends of the WS DCO to guard against power loss.

Then, over time, I began to lose power on some of the rail segments. This loss of power was caused by the jumpers coming loose on the underside of the DCO. If you turn over a WS DCO, you can see the little thin copper jumpers.

They are not well soldered into place. In fact, they seem to be press fit rather than soldered. I sold two on eBay after clearly outlining the problem. The third one was so bad that I did not feel that I could sell it so I still own it.

The other problem was derailments caused by warped ends of the DCO. I basically had to nail down all four ends to keep the DCO in proper gauge with the adjoining tracks. Ugh!

As I think back, the DCO seemed to be too flexible. I think that caused the power loss problems as well as the derailments. That piece of specialty track just seemed like it couldn't retain its shape. It basically warped.

Rich

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Alton Junction

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 22,090 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Friday, July 16, 2021 10:26 AM

gmpullman

My experience has shown that after 26 years I have had little trouble with any of my Walthers/Shinohara code 83 including double crossovers, four double slip switches and maybe two dozen curved turnouts of varying degrees. Plus some seventy five or so conventional  5, 6, 8 and 10s.

At one time, I had a Walthers Shinohara Double Slip and several curved turnouts. I never had any problems with any of them. My only problem was with the Walthers Shinohara Double Crossover, as previously discussed.

Rich

Alton Junction

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • 17,973 posts
Posted by Overmod on Friday, July 16, 2021 12:12 PM

richhotrain
I'll jump in here.

Thank you, Rich!  That's precisely the kind of information I think would be valuable in this discussion.

  • Member since
    December 2008
  • From: Heart of Georgia
  • 4,644 posts
Posted by Doughless on Friday, July 16, 2021 12:21 PM

riogrande5761
Rob Spangler has commented that the curved turnouts have gauge issues and required some modifications.

At least one of the issues that I am aware of regarding the long Walthers SHINOHARA curved turnouts, the 7.5 and especially 8, is that the point rails are very long.  They are only supported in two places, by attachment at the hinge and way down by the throwbar.

This length of unsupported rail caused them to splay out of gauge when traversed by a heavy locomotive.  Personally, I never had the problem, but I run short plastic diesels. 

I assume the issue could be a revealed if your layout ran big, heavy, brass steamers.  

I read, and could see by looking at my turnous, where folks would use strips cut from PC board material cemented to the underside of the rails to keep them from splaying.  PC board thought to be a sturdier material for its height than something like common styrene, and of course it is nonconductive.

- Douglas

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • 17,973 posts
Posted by Overmod on Friday, July 16, 2021 12:38 PM

Doughless
PC board thought to be a sturdier material for its height than something like common styrene, and of course it is nonconductive.

But be careful to use only single-layer without any sneaky  little vias.  Just removing any surface copper traces might not be enough to avoid mystery shorts...

  • Member since
    December 2008
  • From: Heart of Georgia
  • 4,644 posts
Posted by Doughless on Friday, July 16, 2021 12:54 PM

Overmod

 

 
Doughless
PC board thought to be a sturdier material for its height than something like common styrene, and of course it is nonconductive.

 

But be careful to use only single-layer without any sneaky  little vias.  Just removing any surface copper traces might not be enough to avoid mystery shorts...

 

 

The read the specific remedy was PC Board material, not cutting up old PC boards with embedded circuitry, but point well made.

Personally, I don't know how easy it is to source blank PC board material, but then again I've never tried.  Not sure if it even exists without circuitry embedded.

- Douglas

  • Member since
    February 2021
  • 290 posts
Posted by crossthedog on Friday, July 16, 2021 3:24 PM

Doughless
Personally, I don't know how easy it is to source blank PC board material, but then again I've never tried. Not sure if it even exists without circuitry embedded.

I think it is available. I ran across a forum post -- thought it was this forum but it could have been elsewhere -- in which someone said they found a supplier from China who sold very high quality virgin PC board for a good price. Maybe he even found it on eBay. If I can find it I'll post it.

Edit 2: It was a YouTube video and I had it completely backwards. The video poster originally ordered from China, but found better qualilty stuff (and less expensive) from an eBay seller in New Hampshire named "abcfab". The video is here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5HRE6ed9gg) and he starts the discussion at 2:35.

Returning to model railroading after 40 years and taking unconscionable liberties with the SP&S, Northern Pacific and Great Northern roads in the '40s and '50s.

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 22,090 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Friday, July 16, 2021 3:38 PM

If I had it to do over with my Walthers Shinohara Double Crossovers, I would have immediately secured them to a fitted piece of styrene sheet, maybe 0.060" sheet, to prevent flexing and warping. I never use caulk to secure my track work to the subroadbed (plywood in my case), but I would caulk the DCO to the styrene sheet. It needs to be flat and stable.

Rich

Alton Junction

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • 17,973 posts
Posted by Overmod on Friday, July 16, 2021 3:55 PM

Doughless
Personally, I don't know how easy it is to source blank PC board material, but then again I've never tried.

The 'best' solution might be to cheat.  Get the single-side boards as if for etching... and just don't mask anything when you etch.

I know that's a kind of kludge-esque solution, but it lets you stock just one kind of board for projects...

  • Member since
    November 2006
  • From: NW Pa Snow-belt.
  • 2,029 posts
Posted by ricktrains4824 on Friday, July 16, 2021 6:17 PM

PC Board material is available.... Depending on the size and amount you want.

PC Board ties are very readily available, from several sources.

Online RS (Radio "Store" Smile, Wink & Grin) has PC Board in a few sizes. Other suppliers as well.

Ricky W.

HO scale Proto-freelancer.

My Railroad rules:

1: It's my railroad, my rules.

2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.

3: Any objections, consult above rules.

  • Member since
    April 2002
  • 921 posts
Posted by dante on Saturday, July 17, 2021 2:44 PM

Rich,

Did you spike the turnout at the locations provided in the turnout ties?

Dante

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 22,090 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Sunday, July 18, 2021 5:46 AM

dante

Rich,

Did you spike the turnout at the locations provided in the turnout ties?

Dante 

No,I did not.

Initially, when I installed the Walthers Shinohara Double Crossovers in the 2005-2006 period, a lot of thinking on the forum was to let turnouts "float". So, that is what I did. But, I eventually started to conclude that was a mistake, so I nailed the DCOs trhough the roadbed into the plywood subroadbed.

But, it proved too late. I had already begun to experience power losses on some rail segments. I believe that this was caused by the thin copper jumpers coming loose on the underside of the DCO, and that was caused by flexing of the turnout.

I will work my way down to the basement later this morning to photograph the underside of my remaining DCO so you can see the jumpers. There are lots of them.

Rich

Alton Junction

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: 4610 Metre's North of the Fortyninth on the left coast of Canada
  • 8,005 posts
Posted by BATMAN on Sunday, July 18, 2021 9:28 AM

I let my turnouts float except for the curved ones. I have several WS curved turnouts and big steam derailed on them until I stuck'em down. I used the thinnest layer of caulk to hold them down and they do come up easily with no residue on them if need be.

Brent

It's not the age honey, it's the mileage.

https://www.youtube.com/user/BATTRAIN1/videos 


  • Member since
    January 2017
  • From: Southern Florida Gulf Coast
  • 14,547 posts
Posted by SeeYou190 on Sunday, July 18, 2021 10:31 AM

gmpullman
My experience has shown that after 26 years I have had little trouble with any of my Walthers/Shinohara code 83 including double crossovers.

I appreciate you sharing your experiences Ed.

I hope my "New Old Stock" Walthers/Shinohara turnouts prove to be just as reliable. I don't know if I will have 26 years left for me, but that sounds like a good long lifespan for a trackage component.

-Kevin

Wink Happily modeling my STRATTON & GILLETTE RAILROAD. A Class A line located in a personal fantasy world of semi-plausible nonsense on Tuesday, August 3rd, 1954.

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Users Online

Search the Community

ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
Model Railroader Newsletter See all
Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox!