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need rivet for valve gear repair?

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need rivet for valve gear repair?
Posted by ChrisVA on Wednesday, May 12, 2021 11:29 AM

Any idea what vendor might provide rivets to fix valve gear on a brass engine?  Also, best way to install rivet without taking engine apart?!

This is a Tenshodo 0-8-0 C1. See Red Arrow

Thanks!

 

engine

 

 

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Posted by maxman on Wednesday, May 12, 2021 1:14 PM

You might try calling Bowser:

https://www.bowser-trains.com/

 

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Posted by snjroy on Wednesday, May 12, 2021 3:18 PM

Well, the right way to do it would be to dismantle the piece and install a new rivet. As mentioned above, Bowser use to sell them with a small tool.

I have cheated in the past. I took a piece of plastic, melted one end to make it act like a rivet, installed it, and melted the other end to make it hold. Careful filing will give it a smooth appearance. I've done that on a few engines and the pieces have held for years...

But I'd be curious to hear what Doctor Wayne (or others) will suggest. Hopefully he will chime in.

Simon

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Posted by NVSRR on Wednesday, May 12, 2021 9:02 PM

Maybe something from a eyeglasses repair kit.   they are a small nuut and bolt. A dab or CA on the nut to secure it.   But still removable

 

shane

A pessimist sees a dark tunnel

An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel

A realist sees a frieght train

An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space

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Posted by PC101 on Wednesday, May 12, 2021 9:25 PM

I do not have any Tenshodo, only Akane, Seiko and PFM. I'd start looking in my brass machine thread screws. The picture, when enlarged, looks to me that one hole is larger (the crosshead link) then the other hole (crosshead). But could be my eyes.

To make a rivet, I would start with a round head screw that after the threads are removed (don't want the threads to chew away the rods) will clear the outer hole then file/turn down the shaft's end to clear the inner hole (if the two holes are not the same size). Now you have a stepped down "screw" with no threads. Dress down the head to look like a flat rivet head. Cut the "screw" to the the correct length the ream out the shaft end a little to create a hollow shaft, then peen over the hollow end.

With out taking the engine apart, find a rivet, protect the head and flatten the  hollow back of the shaft with a pliers, this would be easier. 

BOWSER shows the ''crosshead link'' being attached to the ''crosshead'' with a 00-90 x 1/4'' screw Part #904 (no nut on the back side). So is the crosshead taped and the crosslink is a cleared hole?

What is on the other side of the loco, a rivet or a screw?

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Posted by doctorwayne on Wednesday, May 12, 2021 10:46 PM

Without too much difficulty, you can make a useable rivet by drilling-out a length of brass wire of a suitable diameter (use a pin vise, not a powered drill).

You can either drill far enough to create a piece that's long enough to protrude through all of the pieces to be joined, or you can drill about half-way.
To remove the "rivet" from the length of wire, place the wire on a hard surface, then use a reasonably sharp #11 blade in your X-Acto to roll the wire back and forth several times, until the drilled-out piece separates - it will go flying into oblivion if you're not mindful.
The portion of the wire that's drilled completely through is then inserted through the parts to be joined, then gently squeezed, using pliers, to deform the protruding ends, which will keep the "rivet" in place - don't squeeze so hard that the deformed ends prevent the parts from moving.
If you choose to drill the wire only partially, cut the piece from the wire, using the knife method described above, then cut a "head" for the rivet, in the same manner, from a slightly thicker piece of brass wire, and solder it to the undrilled end of the partially drilled wire.  You can then insert it into the pieces to be joined, and squeeze it with pliers to partially deform the unseen drilled-out end.

I used this method to repair this Bachmann USRA Light Mountain quite a few years ago, and have had no more issues with it....

If the make-yer-own solution doesn't sound all that appealing, I agree with the earlier recommendations to contact Bowser for ready-to-use rivets.

Wayne

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Wednesday, May 12, 2021 10:46 PM

I own a brass Oriental USRA 0-8-0 with a similar problem.

I have bought all the different valve gear rivets made by Bowser and Precision Scale, and the Bowser tools.

I have not made the repair yet. I looked at the Bowser tools and could not figure out how I was supposed to do it. The project is now packed away.

Anyway... I am looking forward to replies from those with experience.

EDIT:

Doctor Wayne and I replied at the exact same time.

-Kevin

Happily modeling in HO scale. A Class A line located in a personal fantasy world of semi-plausible nonsense on Tuesday, August 3rd, 1954.

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Posted by rrebell on Thursday, May 13, 2021 9:51 AM

To use you pound the rivet flat once in position. You pound on the side of the rivet that has a hole.

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Posted by PC101 on Thursday, May 13, 2021 4:20 PM

rrebell

To use you pound the rivet flat once in position. You pound on the side of the rivet that has a hole.

 

''Pound'' might be a little heavy handed, how about ''lightly Tap"? 

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Posted by rrebell on Friday, May 14, 2021 9:01 AM

OK, lightly tap enough to do the job. Line it up so the punch applies even presure to all sides of the end of the body and exert enough presure to gently deform the rivet to form a filet on the obverse side of the one you want to be visually appealing.  Is that better?

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, May 14, 2021 9:25 AM

There should have been instructions with the Bowser tool.  I have seen fully-readable images of the instructions in eBay listings.

You do not install these rivets with the linkage on the locomotive.

The rivet goes through the linkage from the top, with the recess in the stem over the 'nose' of the Bowser tool.  Gentle tapping flares the rivet out evenly for 360 degrees of its circumference evenly -- you can adjust angle and position as you tap-tap-tap to ensure this, and check to ensure smooth action as you go.  

The curve on the Bowser tool smoothly mushrooms the expanding flare into the familiar curved head on the backside of the rivet.  At some point this is complete enough that you can turn the assembly over, put the flat head against some suitable anvil surface, and selectively gently, gently peen the formed head until it snugly holds the rod parts without wobble but is still free to rotate at the joint.  This may require very finicky 'finishing touch' as you get close.  The easiest way to avoid 'over tightening' is to use a piece of paper between the parts when riveting; you tear or soak or burn the paper out to make the 'clearance'.

Naturally you'd want a fine hammer to do this work (I would use a tack hammer at the very least; a variety of jeweler's hammers would also do nicely.  I don't have advice on 'household alternatives' for small-head hammers, but I'm quite certain modelers here have found brilliant options.)

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Posted by doctorwayne on Friday, May 14, 2021 1:05 PM

rrebell
...Is that better?

Yup!  A little finesse goes along way.

Wayne

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Posted by PC101 on Friday, May 14, 2021 4:38 PM

doctorwayne
 
rrebell
...Is that better?

 

Yup!  A little finesse goes along way.

Wayne

 

Very good sir. I would not want to see someone post here next asking ''how do I remove a rivet that I made too tight?".

Those two parts, the crosshead and the crosshead link, in the OP question may need to be a tiny bit loose and move so as not to bind, not tight like a bridge beam or a boiler being riveted together. Edit, oops, I just read Overmod's post above.

 

 

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Posted by GP025 on Sunday, May 16, 2021 7:47 PM
Are you sure that's a rivet and not a metric screw? I have several old Tenshodo brass loco's and don't recall any rivet's in the valve gear. I'm not home so I can't verify. Try American Scale Models, they have parts bags from brass loco's that might have something to fit properly. Kevin

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