A Classic REAL Trains 'n Traction FOTO site! Locked

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  • Member since
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Posted by BudKarr on Sunday, October 30, 2005 6:23 PM
Good Evening Captain Tom,

My contribution tonight is something from Europe and the German railways. These locomotives pulled many a passenger train and fall within the category of this thread.

First – the Royal Bavarian State Railway (KBStB), 1908

Class S 3/6 4-6-2 (1923 series)

Axleload: 39,500lb (18t)

Cylinders, HP (2) 16.7 X 24.0in (425 X 610mm)

Driving wheels: 73.6in (1.870mm)

Heating surface: 2.125sq ft (197.4m2)

Superheater: 798sq ft (74.2m2)

Steam pressure: 228psi (16kg/cm2)

Grate area: 48.8sq ft (4.5m2)

Fuel: 18,800lb *8.5t)

Water: 6,030gal (7.240US)

Adhesive weight: 116,000lb (53t)

Total weight: 328,500lb (149t)

Length overall: 69ft 11in (21,317mm)

Second – Royal Prussian Union Railway (KPEV), 1922

Class P10 2-8-2

Tractive effort: 40,400lb (18,200kg)

Axle load: 43,00lb (19.5t)

Cylinders: (3) 20.5 x 26.0in (520 x 660mm)

Driving wheels: 68.9in (1,750mm)

Heating surface: 2.348sq ft (218.2m2)

Superheater; 883sq ft (82m2)

Steam pressure: 200psi (14kg/cm2)

Grate area: 43.8sq ft (4.07m2)

Fuel: 15,430lb (7.0t)

Water: 6,930gal (8,320 us) (31.5m3)

Adhesive weight: 167,000lb (77t)

Total weight: 243,500lb (110.5t)

Length overall: 75ft 5in (22,980mm)

Third – German Federal Railway (DB) 1953

Class 01.10 4-6-2

Tractive effort: 37,200lb (16,830kg)

Axle load: 44,500lb (20.2t)

Cylinders: (3) 19.7 x 26.0 in (500 x 600mm)

Driving wheels: 78x7in (2,000mm)

Heating surface: 2,223sq ft (206.5m2)

Superheater: 1,035sq ft (96.2m2)

Steam pressure: 227.6psi (16kg/cm2)

Grate area: 42.6sq ft (3.96m2)

Fuel: 22,000lb (10.0t)

Water: 8,400gal (10,000US)

Adhesive weight: 133,000lb (60.4t)

Total weight: 244,000lb (110.8t) (without tender)

Length overall: 79ft 2in (24,130mm)

I recognize much of this technical data may be meaningless to many – but perhaps others may find something of interest. Without photos it is difficult to envision, but my capability in that area is extremely restricted.

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Posted by BudKarr on Sunday, October 30, 2005 12:52 PM
Good day, Sir!

As I have mentioned at the bar, I will be away for awhile, but plan to post something here before I go. I think this idea has fruit to bear, it just may take a bit of time. Don't be discouraged. There are people out there who enjoy sharing stories of their rail riding experiences, just a matter of attracting the attention.

My passenger train experiences are largely with European roads, and I do not have notebooks or other means to call them back; just a memory.

Your accounts of the BC Rail trip does bring to mind some experiences I have had in that part of the world and they were all good. My idea of a long distance rail trip takes into account a mindset that one may wi***o think about: try to avoid being in a hurry and avoid comparisons with those luxury tourist "traps" called trains. My preference is to take in the ambiance of the true passenger train experience, from the waiting room to the boarding to the trip itself and then the disembarkation. It all lends itself to the benefit one should come away with regarding that kind of a trip. Of course my motivation is somewhat different in that I rarely book a trip simply for the pleasure, but seemingly always come away - pleased!

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Posted by siberianmo on Sunday, October 30, 2005 9:11 AM
Here's a Post from "my" past with another thread that may be of interest here. Definitely a tale of Classic Trains! [tup]

I don't know why, but as of late, I've been thinking about an RDC (Rail Diesel Car) trip I took with my wife and a couple of friends back in 1999.

We were visiting Vancouver, BC and on what was supposed to be an "off day" - (they do what they want, we do what we want), I looked into booking a trip aboard BC Rail's "Cariboo Prospector" (that IS the way they spelled it) from North Vancouver to Lillooet, BC. The round trip was to take the entire next day with a 7 AM departure and return at 9 PM.

When the other couple found out what I had in mind, they too wanted to come along. So, I booked the four tickets and off we went.

The consist awaiting us that chilly March morning was four RDC's - from my pictures, it appears that we had two RDC3's and two RDC1's. The livery was the blue/white striped with blue red heralds.

For those who may not know, an RDC3 was designed as a combined passenger, baggage-express, and mail car. Over the years, BC Rail (formerly Pacific Great Eastern Railway) had these cars "rehabed" to provide a food preparation area in the baggage area. The coach portions were outfitted to include swing down tray tables (similar but larger that what the airlines use) along with much more comfortable seating than I recall when commuting aboard the Boston & Maine's RDC's back in the 1960's.

The RDC1 was initially designed to seat 89 passengers. BC Rail's version appeared to be about the same, but with the upgraded seating.

Our seats were in the RDC3 for both legs of the journey.

That morning was a gloomy, low overhanging cloudy start to the day. As we wound our way out of North Vancouver and followed the route to Squamish, I was a bit saddened that my wife would not get the beautiful view of the inlets off of Howe Sound. Really a picturesque place to see ......

From the train at Squamish we could see the industry of the area along with a couple of steam loco's (and I'm sure many of you will provide commentary on those!!). As I recall, only a relative handful boarded and off we continued to Whistler, gaining elevation as we got into the mountains.

What scenery! This was becoming a great day - as the sky cleared up almost as soon as we got into higher elevations. Waterfalls, gorges, cascading mountains - all of it at about 8 mph - as the engineer slowed the train to permit picture taking. Really something to see and keep etched in the memory banks (and of course, photo albums!).

We had about a 10 minute stop at Whistler - so I got off the train with my friend's wife (who was in dire need of a cigarette) whereas I wanted to snap some photo's of the RDC's (what else!). Surprise, surprise! There was about 4 feet of snow awaiting us - of course the platform was cleared - but the snow was all around us. Absolutely wonderful to see and experience - and the temperatures were more than tolerable. I wanted to stick around a bit, but the RDC's sounded the horn and we climbed back on board.

Now, I could go on and on and on about everything we saw along the way to Lillooet, but let me just say that the descriptions would somehow all sound alike - breathtaking, beautiful, stunning, great, fantastic, etc. ......

About 45 minutes south of Lillooet, we passed by two large glacial lakes - Anderson and Seton lakes. With sheer cliffs dropping nearly straight down to the water, we all marveled at just how those mountain goats managed to get where they were (much less back to where they came from)!! Unbelievable. Each lake has a story connected with it - perhaps for another session (unless someone wants to "jump" in to expound on them a bit ......[:)])

Lillooet sits in a valley and the town is within reasonable walking distance from the train station, which by the way is a great place to see. We had about 2 hours before the return trip, so we headed into town to see the sites.

We learned that Lillooet's history really goes back to the "gold rush" days when this was the staging area for the hordes of people heading north to stake their claims. We also met some very friendly and forthcoming folks who were more than willing to answer the questions so many had. My wife and I decided to hike up one of the hills - all developed - just to get some photo's looking down on the town. Glad we did, for those pictures really are now keepsakes. One of the people we met came out of her house and asked if we had "see the bear?" Hmmmmmm - apparently there had been a bear meandering around, but had not been seen for about an hour or so. That was comforting[:0]

The return trip was also something to remember, but alas, much of it was in dusk then darkness. The meal served on board and at our seats was fantastic. We had a choice of entrees and the food was plentiful, hot, and tasty. Forgot to say the same about our breakfast .......

Well, BC Rail no longer runs those RDC's or anything else. The trains all the way to Prince George (Lillooet is about half way) no longer run. Sad times for many along the route. I know, from friends we have in BC, that it was a heated debate right up until CN took over ...... The RDC's? Well, they've been "dispersed," another way of saying "sold" and from the best of what I've been able to ascertain - have all seen much better times. A couple have been relegated to tourism trains in the U.S., others as spare parts, and one or two either have or are supposed to wind up in a RR museum. There had been a rumor that VIA Rail wanted to purchase them, for the "Malahat," but apparently that fell through - budgets being what they always are - "insufficient"![:(]

That's it!

See ya'll later![tup]

Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by siberianmo on Saturday, October 29, 2005 9:30 PM

Thanx again for your submission ...... [tup] A great story and one that conjurs up all kinds of thoughts. The kinda trip some of us would love to take! [swg]

See ya at the bar!

Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by BudKarr on Saturday, October 29, 2005 3:20 PM
Hello Captain Tom,

Perhaps I can help keep this idea of yours going by digging through my extremely limited contributions to the bar ..... ah, here's one some may find interesting:

I am not one for the type of story you may be looking for, but here is something I recall from several years ago – too many in fact.

It was a dark and stormy night ….. no, actually it was a very clear and star filled night crossing the plains in Saskatchewan Province en route Vancouver. I had boarded the train in Winnipeg, having completed my business there and decided to kill off my free weekend by taking CP Rail’s “The Canadian” to the west coast. The train in those days was in the livery of the CP “Pacman” logo and in that “action red” color. Did not care for either very much, but the cars were what was important to me (and for you too Tom, as I understand it!). My bedroom was in a Chateau series sleeping car and I wound up with a double at no extra fare. I had requested to know what the fare was for a double room for single occupancy and the ticket agent simply booked one and that was that. Nice gesture I thought.

During that era it did not seem as if the tourist trade had taken over the route the way it has since VIA Rail entered the picture. Cutting back those trains to 3 departures per week has added to the crowded trains. But I digress.

I spent a bit of time back in the Park car (Strathcona seems to ring a bell) and was having a rather spirited conversation with two RCMP officers who were on holiday, having come down from Churchill and also en route Vancouver. Well, by the time the last call was sounded, we had pretty much emptied the inventory of the “spirits” we preferred. That did not dampen the enthusiasm for my new found companions, as they begged their leave, to indicate they would return shortly. And that they did – with each holding an Imperial quart of Canadian Club and VO whiskey. Where did it come from and how? Why from the baggage car, where else?

It was a grand time in the lounge until the wee hours, as one of them furnished a guitar and the other a banjo. Before too long a crowd gathered and the “song fest” began with all in attendance joining in. The car attendant and train conductor re-opened the bar, as we were in need of ice and “chasers.” I could go on with this, but I think you get the message.

It was a grand time aboard “The Canadian,” one perhaps never to be experienced again anywhere else. Times and people are far, far different these days.

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Posted by siberianmo on Saturday, October 29, 2005 6:21 AM
Hi Jim!

Appreciate the submission and willngness to participate! [tup][tup]

Sounds like your experiences were at an age when mine also began with riding trains. It truly was a great era in U.S. and Canadian railroading back then ....

There are some guys who frequent "Our" Place - an adult eating 'n drinking establishment - on this Forum who have similar interests ....... [swg]

Catch ya later!

Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by jimrice4449 on Friday, October 28, 2005 11:59 PM
My most memorable train trip was a Twofur. I don't remember the exact year but it was about a year or two (before or after) the end of WWII. My father's job as a sales manager involved a lot of travel and on one trip to Minneapolis he decide to give me a treat by taking me along. Ordinarily he would have left on a sunday to be at the convention on monday but for this trip we left on saturday via the Milw Afternoon Hiawatha. From my frequent fanning at the Canal St crossing I knew that this train generally had a diesel, which I hadn't ridden behind at that point (except for a trip to Omaha on the Denver Zephyr, which made very little impression at age 3 or 4). Imagine my disapointment when we turned under the C&NW overpass and the billowing steam indicated we had one of those "old fasioned" F-7 Hudsons on the point. At that time the Milw public timetables had a chart w/ a picture of a milepost so you could time the seconds between mileposts and calculate your speed. We broke 100MPH once between Chicago and Milwaukee and twice across Wisconson west of Milwaukee. A highlight was shortly after passing through the only tunnel on the route seeing wisps of steam over an adjacent C&NW line. We caught up with the psgr tran like it was standing still and when we got to the engine the siderods where thrashing up a storm. It was probably doing 60MPH or better, but at our speed seemed to be just loafing along.
The return trip I made solo on the C&NW 400. Here there was no need watch out for mileposts since there was a speedometer in the rear of the observation car. Going through the North Shore suburbs of Chicago it hit 112MPH. Considering that this area is pretty much solidly urban and that the crossing gates at that time were manually operated with oil fueld red lighs on the gates it was a bit scary.
The trip would have been impossible a little in the future since the ICC imposed 99MPH maximum speed in 1947 or 48.
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Posted by siberianmo on Friday, October 28, 2005 7:02 PM
Hey BK!

Thanx for the Post and by all means do it again for the guys at the bar.

Enjoyed the X2000 info and it brought back some memories of my own of European railroading.

Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
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Posted by BudKarr on Friday, October 28, 2005 2:17 PM
Hello Captain Tom,

Pehaps I will be the first to respond to your new idea.

My story involves a trip between Göteborg and Stockholm, Sweden back in the mid-90s aboard the "tilt train" referred to as the X2000.

My memory is not quite as vivid as many of you out there who thrive on these kinds of recollections. I prefer rail travel, but am not what one may consider to be a rail fan nor am I a hobbyist. Mine is to use that mode for travel when it best fits into the time I have available.

X2000 provides all types of innovative approaches to passenger rail travel, many of which have since been incorporated elsewhere. For example: Automatic Train Control which can stop the train should a signal "back" not be received; Parking brakes and anti-slip devices that are electronic in operation; magnetic emergency braking that can stop a speeding train at 125 mph in about 3/4 of a mile; asynchronous traction motors used to power the car's four axles; and of course the "tilt" mechanism that kicks in when rounding curves.

The consist we had that particular run featured the locomotive and I believe 5 or 6 cars, each with specific interior designs and purposes. I traveled in First Class in the 2nd car back from the locomotive - I think.

I recall the cars being "done" rather fashionably, although a bit on the "plastic" side - sterile might be a better word. Some passengers appeared to be a bit uncomfortable with the motion of the car, causing a feeling of "sea sickness." Fortunately, no one found a reason to experience projectile vomiting in the car I traveled in!

My recollection is that I had no dificulty navigating the passageways heading to and from other cars, asI visited the bar car a few times to sample the Swedish brew and other delights. I could have waited for the on board Hostess, but wanted to stretch my legs during that just a bit under 4 hour journey.

I do not wi***o make comparisons with other trains, such as the French TGV or German ICE, etc. The X2000 is a distinctive engineering accomplishment and stands alone in my mind as worth the expense of time and money.

The Swedish countryside seemed to zip by and as I had read from someone's Post elsewhere - looking from the window was as is a slide show was taking place. They advertised the speeds in excess of 100 mph, perhaps even 125. All I can report is that we were moving and moving quite well. The ride was fine and stops minimal.

Today, as I understand it, the X2000 runs link most of Sweden's major cities. I travel to that part of the world rather frequently, but have not availed myself of a repeat train trip. Next time, I plan to.

Captain Tom, with your permission, I will post this on the Our Place thread as well.


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A Classic REAL Trains 'n Traction FOTO site!
Posted by siberianmo on Friday, October 28, 2005 1:51 PM

The theme of this Thread has evolved into a foto Posting site - just one per visit will be fine! If we can generate a discussion as a result, even better! Thumbs Up [tup]

<amended: 05 Nov 2007>

 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

The original first Post saved for posterity! Smile,Wink, & Grin [swg]

The idea of this thread is for the discussion of passenger rail travel that falls into the Classic Trains category. If you follow what Kalmbach features in their magazine, then you know what the definition of classic should be.

I only ask that we maintain a degree of civility with the Posts and shy away from being Sign - Off Topic!! [#offtopic].

So, here goes - who wants to be first to discuss a passenger train trip, or share passenger train knowledge, or both for our Inuagural Run Question [?]

Happy Railroading! Siberianmo


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