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Classic Train Questions Part Deux (50 Years or Older)

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, July 12, 2021 2:24 PM

And what railroads (besides the StJ&LC) served St. Johnsbury Union Station?

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, July 12, 2021 1:58 PM

St. Johnsberry.

The Short Line had sevweral names, but was known as the St, Johnsberry and Lake Champlain for a time.  Aside from the B&M, CN and/or Grand Trunk.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, July 12, 2021 1:42 PM

Overmod.  Thid ic Vermont, not Massachusetts or Rhode Island or New Hampshire!

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, July 12, 2021 12:04 PM

Would stations at ports for the Fall River and other passenger ship/boat lines qualify as 'Union stations' if served by more than one company?

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, July 12, 2021 10:08 AM

South of Newport.  Station operated by a local short line, but serving what were then two class Is.  Most passenger equipment some shade of maroon, though green crept in later.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, July 12, 2021 8:00 AM

Not certain about the details:  I believe the B&M sod lines running into Canada.  Possibly the station you are requesting is one in Newport or sherbrook.  Not clear if the station existed as jointly used by CN or Grand Trunk before or after 1926.

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Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, July 11, 2021 11:47 AM

Windsor is correct.  Claremont Jct. was and is in the city of Claremont NH.  The stub of the B&M/Claremont & Concord still goes to downtown Claremont from "The Junction". Before 1930 streetcars of the Claremont Ry. (Light & Power) also called there.

The other one I'm looking for was served by trains shown in the B&M public timetables, even though the line it was on was sold by B&M in 1926. The line also served one of the non-Union Station stations I mentioned earlier.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, July 11, 2021 9:05 AM

As far as  "after 1926."  recall that the public still regarded them as B&M trains and used B&M, as well as CV, tickets, and were still shown as B&M in the public timetables.  Correct?

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, July 11, 2021 8:59 AM

You are correct.  Clairmont is in Vermont, but the station, which I actually used ulonce (with about 200 fellow Wah-Kee-Nah campers and our counselors) in August 1945) is in New Hampshire and was Clairmont Junction, not Clairmont.  We exited ex-PRR P-54 B&M coaches pulled by a Mogal from Concord and boarded regular grey-interior New Haven coaches on the souihbound Day White Mountans Express to GCT with a B&M Pacific up front to Springfield.

The correct Vermont station is Windsor.

Also went through Clairmont Junction in Spring 1950 on an NRHS Round-the-Mountains fan-trip.  Photos somewhere (hopefully still somewhere) n this website, but not at Clairmont Jc. specifically.

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Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, July 11, 2021 7:35 AM

Pretty close.  The station at Claremont Junction is in New Hampshire (the one you're looking for isn't far away, but IS on the Vermont side of the river).  Wells River was a Montpelier & Wells River (later Barre & Chelsea) station serving as an agency for B&M and CP.  The remaining Union Station did not serve the B&M after 1926, though trains with B&M equipment regularly called there.  White River Jct. also served the Woodstock Ry. until 1937.

An interesting variation was the station at Alburgh VT on the Rutland and the Central Vermont Rouses Point sub.  Owned by the Rutland, it had a CV agent in rented space from time to time, or the Rutland agent handled what little CV business there was, including handling train orders for the gantlet (CV/Rutland) bridge to Rouses Point, an arrangement that stemmed from CV being the "senior" railroad.

Once service is restored July 19, four of the six Union Stations will be seeing passenger trains again.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, July 11, 2021 7:00 AM

The State is Vermont. and the Central Vermont and Boston and Maine shared Union Stations at Brattleboro, Bellows Falls, Clairmont Jucnction, and White River Junction.  The Rutland also made an appearance at Bellows Falls and shared a station at Bennington with the Boston and Maine.   The Canadian Pacific shared a station at Wells River Junction with the Boston and Maine.

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Posted by rcdrye on Saturday, July 10, 2021 6:03 AM

This small state had at least six Union Stations.  Two railroads shared four of them (with some other railroads).  Name the state and the other two which were not part of that group.

There were other shared stations in the state that were not named as Union Stations. In those cases the stations were operated by one railroad on some kind of shared revenue basis.

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, July 7, 2021 7:19 PM

SD70Dude
South of the Mason-Dixon line.

So is a good chunk of New Jersey. Wink

(Yeah, yeah, not 'really', but extend the line east and see what happens.

(IIRC there was actually some congressperson who thought there was slavery in south Jersey before the Civil War for this 'reason'...)

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Posted by SD70Dude on Wednesday, July 7, 2021 6:35 PM

South of the Mason-Dixon line.

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, July 7, 2021 3:10 PM

Incidentally mine was cars that had 'Maryland' in the name somewhere. In the Southeast only, really, 'by the grace of God' but still...

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Posted by NP Eddie on Wednesday, July 7, 2021 11:43 AM

RC has it correctly.  Next one to you.

 

Ed Burns

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Posted by rcdrye on Saturday, July 3, 2021 3:32 PM

Couldn't find any prefixes, but the following five were built for Dixie Route Florida Service in 1954 to Plan 4196 (4 sec 4 rmt 5 DBR 1Cpt):

Florida Sunset

Florida Surf

Florid Flowers

Florida Lakes

Florida Traveler

The first two went to the NC&StL, the next two to the C&EI, the fifth to the L&N.

Haven't looked at Overmod's list yet...

The other four Plan 4196 Pullmans outshopped at the same time:

Camellia

Gardenia

Jamaica

Scott M Loftin

First two went to ACL, the other two to FEC (Scott Loftin was a former bankruptcy trustee of the FEC).

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Posted by NP Eddie on Friday, June 25, 2021 4:42 PM

No horse cars, but look to southeast USA.

 

Ed Burns

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, June 25, 2021 2:33 PM

While researching, what did two PRR horse cars and a 32-seat obs on the Congo,  a 36-seat GN dining car,  a Southern 56-seat chair car, a B&O business car and 8-section buffet lounge, and a Wagner palace car have in common?

No prefixes, but extra points for suffixes...

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Posted by NP Eddie on Friday, June 25, 2021 11:49 AM

This is a post WWII passenger question.

Five lightweight sleepers were named for a southeastern state. The  owner  ship was divided by three railroads. Name the prefixes of the five cars and the originating and end  terminals.a

Happy researching.

Ed Burns

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Posted by SD70Dude on Tuesday, June 15, 2021 2:36 PM

Overmod
daveklepper
Not a very good candidate for restoration to operation for excursion service?

I think the real problem is not so much that you can't run excursions with no lead truck as it is that you have all the 'care and feeding' expenses of a 2-10-2 with the speed and service restrictions on top.

While it would rather expensive to restore and operate, a 0-10-2 could be well suited to a excursion line with good track, big heavy trains and steep grades that would require slow speeds and high power requirements at those low speeds.  

But the only line I can think of that fits that bill already has their hands full with a 2-6-6-2, which is an even better option than the surviving Union.

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, June 15, 2021 7:45 AM

daveklepper
Not a very good candidate for restoration to operation for excursion service?

I think the real problem is not so much that you can't run excursions with no lead truck as it is that you have all the 'care and feeding' expenses of a 2-10-2 with the speed and service restrictions on top.

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, June 15, 2021 3:02 AM

Not a very good candidate for restoration to operation for excursion service?

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Posted by SD70Dude on Sunday, June 13, 2021 6:43 PM

rcdrye

...and Union only had 9 of them (301-309).  C&NW had a pair rebuilt from CStPM&O 2-10-2's.

Yeah, I guess I misread the number series.  No 300. 

One survives, and is on display in Greenville, Pennsylvania:

https://www.steamlocomotive.info/vlocomotive.cfm?Display=1016

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, June 13, 2021 8:00 AM

It seems the pony trucks were derailing as the 2-10-2's crested the Proviso Yard hump where they were used as pushers (they didn't go OVER the hump, just up to the crest...).  Pony truck removed, problem solved!

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, June 13, 2021 7:15 AM

Sure looks like a 2-10-2 where someone swiped the poney truck!

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Posted by rcdrye on Saturday, June 12, 2021 10:26 AM

...and Union only had 9 of them (301-309).  C&NW had a pair rebuilt from CStPM&O 2-10-2's.

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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, June 12, 2021 10:12 AM

The auxiliary locomotive was a fairly lousy solution, as it turned out; the quartered rods couldn't be (or weren't) effectively cross-balanced to run 'idle' at higher speeds even with the engine out of gear.

At least one railroad (Southern) used TWO three-axle (!) motored trucks under a tender - as I recall, coupled to a 2-10-2 - in what might have been the only practical possible service for the arrangement... hump duty.  There was at least one picture.  I do not remember the draft arrangements but I'll bet they were 'unsatisfactory' ...

Of course if you want to see the thing done with full engineering, go to the land of superfluous engineering: see the tender of T38-3255 (the ineffable Douglas Self, of course, has an account of it).  Instead of wasting exhaust, let's condense it on the tender... but, hmmmm... if we have marine-style condensation effectiveness, why not build a booster turbine on a couple of tender axles that could extract power from the exhaust steam?  (Perhaps needless to say, this was not what auxiliary locomotives could do!)

This is far less nuts than it appears today; consider the Parsons Reaction Turbine on Titanic, which made enormous shp on steam entirely below atmospheric pressure.

It was clear to me as a boy why this  made far less economic than thermodynamic sense... connected in most ways to effective condenser limits.  The experiment perfectly spanned the early research on ultrafast steam locomotives about this size, which are almost a poster child for the effective range extension at 'above scooping speed' that the arrangement would provide as well as the augment-free boosting... but you'd want speed gears in the tender.  If I could figure that out at age 15, I'm reasonably sure the German engineers behind the tender looked carefully at this in some of their high-speed design from the very early '30s on.  (If Juniatha were here I'm sure she'd be familiar with what was done then and why, but no.)

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Saturday, June 12, 2021 10:06 AM

Like any heavy switcher or hump pusher, the proportions always seem a bit off.  It may be due to the lack of a pony truck.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by SD70Dude on Saturday, June 12, 2021 9:34 AM

Overmod

Union 0-10-2

Correct.

Auxiliary locomotive is a far better name than booster anyway!

Here's 303 brand new at Eddystone:

https://railpictures.net/photo/773574/

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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