Trains.com

Classic Railroad Quiz (at least 50 years old).

689594 views
7368 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    June 2002
  • 18,248 posts
Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, October 7, 2021 3:55 AM

Burch may be correct regarding catenary construction.  I'm certain regarding placing in revenue service.  This is different.  Engine change facilities, etc.

You can Google to get the specific information and access to technical papers.

I think rc is the winner.

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • 17,961 posts
Posted by Overmod on Thursday, October 7, 2021 9:14 AM

Something I find disturbing, perhaps ominous, is that Burch is no longer available to read via Google Books -- it was when I first tried to put this up as a question.  I had to go in using the Internet Archive copy from the NYPL to reconfirm his date for the electrification.

Something interesting would be to verify the figures for actual in-service dates that the first 82 miles were put in service, and then the expansion.  In establishing priority we should use contemporary credible data; are there references that establish specific events in 1905?  (I'd think that you and rc would be at the top of the list of people who would know...)

No question that it's rc's question now.

  • Member since
    June 2002
  • 18,248 posts
Posted by daveklepper on Friday, October 8, 2021 7:31 AM

I already posted the exact date for the first revenue operation from GCT to New Rochelle.   The history is avialable on the IEEE website, but I forget how to navigate to it.

  • Member since
    May 2012
  • 4,543 posts
Posted by rcdrye on Friday, October 8, 2021 10:08 AM

Dave got it right, so it's his question.  I just supplied the mileage number 

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • 17,961 posts
Posted by Overmod on Friday, October 8, 2021 4:25 PM

Even if the 82 miles didn't see trains until 1905 it would still be two full years earlier, in an era where that was an eternity in rapid development of high-voltage single-phase AC.

In any case rc's was the answer I was expecting.

  • Member since
    June 2002
  • 18,248 posts
Posted by daveklepper on Saturday, October 9, 2021 2:29 PM

rc, your answer is  correct, and it is now your question.  The interurban you mentiomed did start revenue service with AC before the NYNH&H.

  • Member since
    May 2012
  • 4,543 posts
Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, October 10, 2021 12:41 PM

Continuing with the 3300 volt theme, the longest line of this interurban system opened with a 3300 VAC electrification in 1907 , was re-electrified with 1200 VDC in 1909, and converted to 600VDC (with some additional substations) in 1924. Abandonment in stages lost the former 3300 volt sections by 1940.

  • Member since
    June 2002
  • 18,248 posts
Posted by daveklepper on Monday, October 11, 2021 3:13 AM

Indiana Railroad, the line west to Terre Haut

  • Member since
    May 2012
  • 4,543 posts
Posted by rcdrye on Monday, October 11, 2021 7:19 AM

IRR didn't have any AC stretches (That would have been THI&E in those days, anyway).  Their only 1200V line was the Interstate Public Service line to louisville.

  • Member since
    June 2002
  • 18,248 posts
Posted by daveklepper on Monday, October 11, 2021 2:43 PM

When did this system exit the interurban electric railway passwbger business?  Did locak streetcar and/or diesel freight continue afterward?  If so, when did these sevices end, or is either still existing?   

You indicated ythat line that had the AC power waws gone by 1940, but this implies that other services continues.  Thus my qtions.

  • Member since
    May 2012
  • 4,543 posts
Posted by rcdrye on Monday, October 11, 2021 3:42 PM

The last remaining piece of the line was abandoned in 1951.  Service on the former AC section lasted until around 1940.

  • Member since
    June 2002
  • 18,248 posts
Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, October 17, 2021 5:04 AM

1951, abandoned for passenger service only?  has that line been restored as a modern light-rail line? When did streetcar sevice in the interurban's most important city end?

  • Member since
    May 2012
  • 4,543 posts
Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, October 17, 2021 1:58 PM

1951 that line was totally abandoned.  Streetcar service ended in the pricipal city in 1958. There is a recently opened streetcar system there now, though not necessarily on the same streets.

  • Member since
    June 2002
  • 18,248 posts
Posted by daveklepper on Monday, October 18, 2021 8:30 AM

Thanks:  The Milwaukee Electric Railway and Light Co.   Last two lines operated by Speedrail.  Don't know which line opened with AC.

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • 17,961 posts
Posted by Overmod on Monday, October 18, 2021 1:54 PM

daveklepper
Don't know which line opened with AC.

Part of the line to Watertown, commencing at Waukesha Beach.  End of July 1908 was when service began.

As I recall the 3300V was a 10x stepdown from 33kV, the power was converted to 550VDC on the cars, and they could easily get over 60mph out of a 53' car... in 1908... with that setup.

Abolition you TMER&L mavens can deduce from the Kuhlman cars being delivered with the 3300V equipment but the AC having been discontinued when the order arrived...

  • Member since
    May 2012
  • 4,543 posts
Posted by rcdrye on Monday, October 18, 2021 6:09 PM

The 1100 series cars delivered for the Watertown line lasted until after WWII (with a massive rebuilding).  The TMER&L was one of the few lines that used poles with an AC electrification, however short-lived it was.  The removal of the 1200V equipment more ore less coincided with the cars' rebuilding.

  • Member since
    June 2002
  • 18,248 posts
Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, October 19, 2021 2:51 AM

New York City had three actual rail abandonments during WWII, all three involving some removal of electrified trackage, all three ihnvolving transfer priveleges of on kind or another, and some alternate rail service on location or nearby.  Give as much detail on the three as you can

Also during WWII, New York City had two rail openings, both involving restoration of earlier abandoned trackage, one a partial restoration and permanent, the other a full restoration,  but abasndoned again about four years after the War's end.

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • 17,961 posts
Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, October 19, 2021 5:58 PM

Before rcdrye blows this away: two of them involve first the removal of the 9th Avenue El south of 155th and the Second Avenue north of 59th -- both made obsolescent by expanding subway service with NYC taking everything over -- and the removal of the whole of the 9th and 2nd by war's end.  Personally I always thought a part of this was the scrap value, a kind of payback for that 'nipponized bit of the old sixth avenue el' that finally told him in the cummings poem...

Bet a hat some of the wartime construction was rail to new or busier piers near Bay Ridge, or connecting track to reach 'that part of the world' more easily or more quickly... outbound and inbound...

A better detail: not all of those els got scrapped by war's end.  What part survived, why was it retained and not bus-converted, and what led to its ultimate demise?

  • Member since
    June 2002
  • 18,248 posts
Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, October 21, 2021 7:27 AM

Both structures were remved before 7 December 1941.  I should have made it clear during the USA's militarially active role in winning the war.  You're close on one, though.

Two involved bridges.  Not necessarily the same two, two also involved streetcar line changes.

SUBSCRIBER & MEMBER LOGIN

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

FREE NEWSLETTER SIGNUP

Get the Classic Trains twice-monthly newsletter