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Why the Adirondack has not Returned (My thoughts)

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Why the Adirondack has not Returned (My thoughts)
Posted by Harrison on Friday, August 12, 2022 3:17 PM

I assure you, I am not turning into another passenger rail video maker (I love you guys though!) but this topic is too close to home not to ignore.

https://youtu.be/npQUyIfNLa8

Harrison

Homeschooler living In upstate NY a.k.a Northern NY.

Modeling the D&H in 1978.

Route of the famous "Montreal Limited"

My YouTube

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Posted by MidlandMike on Friday, August 12, 2022 9:15 PM

CN owning the Canadian segment may potentially doom the Adirondack.  CN is already fighting with Amtrak in the US on ex-IC routes.  In the US, Amtrak has some legal leverage.  However, in Canada their government does not seem willing or able to exert pressure on passenger operations over private lines.  CN seems to have the leverage, and may be using it to get back at Amtrak.  Is there the ability to "turn" the train at Plattsburg or Rouses Point?

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Saturday, August 13, 2022 10:30 AM

If it can't run to Montreal, discontinue it.

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Posted by Lithonia Operator on Saturday, August 13, 2022 12:41 PM

Or change the name!

Still in training.


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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, August 13, 2022 1:10 PM

Lithonia Operator
Or change the name!

Somehow I don't see the "Rouses Pointer" or "Plattsburgher" as much of a draw.  You could always call it the 'Adirondack and back' and promote it like that new Pittsfield excursion service.

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Posted by CMStPnP on Saturday, August 13, 2022 2:32 PM

11 hours by train, 6 hours by car.     Thats your ridership problem right there.   

I would say Amtrak or NY should buy the route if increasing the speed to 79-90 mph would drop the travel time close to 6 hours.     Otherwise, sorry but the rail route is a loser as far as rail passenger corridors go.

NYC to Albany is near high speed I thought.   So the route from Albany to Montreal really must be in bad shape or not very direct.    222 miles need significant upgrades probably but like I said earlier if you cannot get the travel time closer to 6 hours via purchase and upgrading......discontinue the train.

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Posted by MidlandMike on Saturday, August 13, 2022 10:12 PM

Further reading indicates that the Napierville Junction RR was merged into CP.  How does CN enter into the picture?

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Posted by alphas on Saturday, August 13, 2022 10:45 PM

"11 hours by train, 6 hours by car."    

And less by plane.

Business will use plane while travelers to see family (especially if not from NYC or Montreal)will mainly use car,.   Train passengers would most likely be (1) people not in a hurry,  (2) those who don't have a car and won't fly for some reason, and (3) some college students who don't have cars and aren't going the entire journey.   

The train would have to get its time down to approximately that of an auto to have any real chance of gaining riders.

 

[/quote]

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Posted by Harrison on Sunday, August 14, 2022 1:43 PM

Answering questions: There is a wye at Plattsburgh (Bluff). 

I like Overmod's idea as running it similar to a Pittsfield train: market to vacationers as well as college students and run it on the weekend (Friday-Monday) only. 

The CP Canadian Sub is relatively high speed (50-80 mph passenger) but there are sections of slow track and it is not a direct route. 

The north-south route splits at Rouses Point, with CP owning the former NJ route and CN owning their own route to Montreal. Amtrak prefers the CN as a direct access to Windsor station (I think is what it's called). 

 

Harrison

Homeschooler living In upstate NY a.k.a Northern NY.

Modeling the D&H in 1978.

Route of the famous "Montreal Limited"

My YouTube

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Posted by SD70Dude on Sunday, August 14, 2022 1:55 PM

Harrison

The north-south route splits at Rouses Point, with CP owning the former NJ route and CN owning their own route to Montreal. Amtrak prefers the CN as a direct access to Windsor station (I think is what it's called). 

VIA and Amtrak trains use the former CN Central Station in Montreal, at the south end of the Mont Royal Tunnel.  

Windsor Station was the CP terminal that D&H route passenger trains used until 1986 (the Montrealer/Washingtonian always used Central Station).  The tracks at Windsor Station were cut back by a couple blocks in the early 1990s and the Bell Centre (current home of the NHL's Canadiens) constructed in their place.  A new set of platforms were built immediately west of the arena, now named the Lucien L'Allier station, it is the terminus for several of Montreal's commuter rail routes but does not host any intercity trains.

Greetings from Alberta

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Posted by MidlandMike on Sunday, August 14, 2022 8:39 PM

I guess it also makes sense to use the CN route, as the former Montrealer used much of that line, and I believe Canadian customs were done at Cantic, Que., where the two lines converged.

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Posted by Gramp on Sunday, August 14, 2022 10:18 PM

Overmod

 

 
Lithonia Operator
Or change the name!

 

Somehow I don't see the "Rouses Pointer" or "Plattsburgher" as much of a draw.  You could always call it the 'Adirondack and back' and promote it like that new Pittsfield excursion service.

 

 

Or "Cross Lake Ferry to Burlington". That'd give Burlington three Amtrak routes to the Big Apple. 

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, August 15, 2022 11:00 AM

Pity they got rid of the SPV2000s; that would have been the perfect thing to run across the Rutland floating bridge, and I suspect no one would be too distressed if both the bridge and SPV were to founder... there probably being few if any passengers needing life jackets.

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Posted by anglecock on Monday, August 15, 2022 2:52 PM

 Adirondack Trailways does the Albany-Plattsburgh trip in about 3 hours give or take.. Also there are less students at Plattsburgh SUNY then before. However the Ethan Allen goes thru Whitehall but they do not have a station as the Vermpont Railway switch is a mile south of the current station

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Posted by MidlandMike on Saturday, August 20, 2022 9:23 PM

At Rouses Point where the line north splits between CP and CN, with CP continuing their own line, how much freight traffic goes up the CN route?  Does NS use the CN route?

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Sunday, August 21, 2022 1:00 AM

IMO it will be cheaper and faster to use the CP route.  The big cost will be installing a connection in SW Montreal from the CP that goes over the CN to the CN route then to the station..  That connection will be in the SE corner of that overpass location.

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