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Fuel stops in days of yore

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Wednesday, May 27, 2020 10:15 AM

My experience with Amtrak fuel stops has been that they are accomplished within 10 to 15 minutes at a slightly extended scheduled stop.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by Deggesty on Friday, May 22, 2020 2:16 PM

blue streak 1

 

 
BaltACD

Amtrak fuels Auto Train (and I believe all the Silver Service trains) at Florence, SC.

 

 

 
Balt:  Think that Florence would need a very ----------- long -----------  hose to fuel the STAR !
 

Yes, it is about sixty-five or so airline miles from Florence to Columbia. Camden is a bit closer, but the stop there is brief; Hamlet is little closer, but not a whole lot.Big Smile

Johnny

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Posted by BaltACD on Friday, May 22, 2020 11:53 AM

blue streak 1
 
BaltACD

Amtrak fuels Auto Train (and I believe all the Silver Service trains) at Florence, SC. 

Balt:  Think that Florence would need a very ----------- long -----------  hose to fuel the STAR !

All the ones that actually operate through Florence.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Friday, May 22, 2020 11:07 AM

BaltACD

Amtrak fuels Auto Train (and I believe all the Silver Service trains) at Florence, SC.

 

 
Balt:  Think that Florence would need a very ----------- long -----------  hose to fuel the STAR !
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Posted by Convicted One on Thursday, May 21, 2020 9:55 PM

So then assuming they had infrastructure in place that allowed on-line refueling, would the locations for these be likely to show up in the schedules? For example an atypically long  station stop. Keeping in mind they were trying to keep overall transit time to a minimum. I think 16 hours at one point?

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Posted by MidlandMike on Thursday, May 21, 2020 9:12 PM

Remember the first 33 miles of the NYC, and 200 miles of he PRR were electric.

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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, May 21, 2020 5:59 PM

Long haul passenger trains had to be both fueled and watered - watered more frequently than fueled.

The B&O watered EB trains from Chicago at Garrett - the East End of the passenger platform were equipped with equipment to water 3 units during the normal station stop and crew change.  When they operated their F3's on passenger trains from Chicago, they were frequently out of water on their arrival at Garrett.  The regular 'E' units had no trouble in making Garrett for water.  The trip from Chicago to Garret included a significant amout of 'terminal' steam generator use - moving the train from Robey Steet Coach Yard to Grand Central Station and the waiting during the boarding processes - which could be delayed for connections from Western operators - so the steam generators could be operating for a extended period of time.  

The nominal fuel consumption for 1st generation diesels was considered to be 2 gallons to the mile.  I believe, on the Baltimoe-Chicago run engines were fuled during the station stop/crew changes at Willard and Cumberland.  While you never want any train to run out of fuel - it is especially bad press for it to happen to a passenger train.

Presuming that a location is configured for fueling on the Main Track - it is much faster to fuel engines than it is to change locomotives.

Amtrak fuels Auto Train (and I believe all the Silver Service trains) at Florence, SC.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, May 21, 2020 5:55 PM

Convicted One
In that case, would they have been more likely to make a fuel stop, or change out the engines entirely at some point along the way?

I'd expect refueling, with fairly large hoses and high-gph pumps, in less time than it would take to uncouple with steam lines and replace the consist.  Note that ATSF routinely serviced their diesels with fuel, water (for steam, and they used more of it than most with steam-ejector AC for the cars), and lube oil within about 5 minutes, and I would expect NYC to use comparable efficiency.

It might be interesting to see if any 'lesser' NYC trains that ran through Cleveland with mandatory power change could do the 'diesel legs' east and west without refueling.  That doesn't apply to the Century.

Someone here will know how many times the Century would be recrewed, and where.  Those are the places I would expect the high-speed fueling and watering to be provided. 

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Posted by Convicted One on Thursday, May 21, 2020 5:36 PM

Overmod
Doubtful.  The best engine NYC would have used would be an E8, with 1200gal tankage and a nominal rate of around 188gal/hr for the two 12-567s

In that case, would they have been more likely to make a fuel stop, or change out the engines entirely at some point along the way?

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, May 21, 2020 5:15 PM

Deggesty
The engines may have carried enough fuel for the 960 or so miles.

Doubtful.  The best engine NYC would have used would be an E8, with 1200gal tankage and a nominal rate of around 188gal/hr for the two 12-567s (remember the sfc goes way up for a blower engine, which all of these were, by run 8 where one might expect much of the running would be made).

To my knowledge this does not count the steam generators, which were nominal 1200#/hr, probably about 6:1 on fuel and fuel at just over 7#/gal; you can do the math required.

The only steam engine that might have been able to make the trip without a fuel stop would have been the C1a with 64T tender -- and even then, there'd be very little reserve if conditions were off 'perfect'.

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Posted by Deggesty on Thursday, May 21, 2020 4:04 PM

The engines may have carried enough fuel for the 960 or so miles. I do not know of engine changes on the South Wind, but the City of Miami engines ran between Chicago and Jacksonville, taking fuel in Columbus, Georgia (840 miles out from Chicago; the 1128 miles to Jacksonville probably was a bit too far). The engines on the Seminole were turned in Columbus.

Johnny

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Fuel stops in days of yore
Posted by Convicted One on Thursday, May 21, 2020 3:23 PM

Back in the pre-Amtrak days when the NYC was running the 20th Century ltd, and the PRR was running the Broadway, would these trains require refueling in transit, or could they make the entire trip on the original set up?

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