BaltACD How do you go about Vetting existing employees that have have full seniority, qualification, benefits and protections of their labor contract.
If they do not measure up to the established standard for their position they should be entered into a remedial training course. If after remedial training they still have not 'measured up' they should be placed in a position suitable to their ability.
Murphy SidingI dunno. It might depend on whether pops was properly vetted, trained and supervised.
You also, go forth and multiply.
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Go%20Forth%20and%20Multiply
zugmann Flintlock76 Well there it is. Work that angle hard and go for it! May want to find out if he likes his dad first?
Flintlock76 Well there it is. Work that angle hard and go for it!
May want to find out if he likes his dad first?
You can't help yourself can you? Go forth and multiply.
Murphy Siding zugmann Flintlock76 Well there it is. Work that angle hard and go for it! May want to find out if he likes his dad first? I dunno. It might depend on whether pops was properly vetted, trained and supervised.
I dunno. It might depend on whether pops was properly vetted, trained and supervised.
Training and Supervision can always be enhanced. How do you go about Vetting existing employees that have have full seniority, qualification, benefits and protections of their labor contract.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Flintlock76Well there it is. Work that angle hard and go for it!
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
243129Perhaps I can catch the ear of the new president as his father and I were firemen together on the New Haven.
Well there it is. Work that angle hard and go for it!
CSSHEGEWISCH He's not suggesting that you abandon your message. I think he means that you need to sound less strident and self-righteous if you want to get through to the people that have a say in this matter.
He's not suggesting that you abandon your message. I think he means that you need to sound less strident and self-righteous if you want to get through to the people that have a say in this matter.
"strident"? So I should effect an obsequious demeanor to get my point across? I am a former railroad engineer, not a faux jovial corporate backslapper. I have presented cold hard facts to support my position and will continue to do so. Perhaps I can catch the ear of the new president as his father and I were firemen together on the New Haven.
"self-righteous"? No, righteous, arising from an outraged sense of indifference to passenger safety.
OvermodThe problem I have with this is that I close my eyes and immediately see that scene from 'Roger and me' where the incompetent GM weasels snicker to each other and leave poor fat Michael standing in the dark with a dead microphone.
I've never seen 'Roger and me' so that comparison is lost on me
Overmod more litanic repetition of what didn't work is unlikely to win the needed 'hearts and minds'.
Are you suggesting I abandon publicizing what are arguably the major factors in Amtrak's recent spate of human error caused accidents? There are people out there operating trains who are grossly unqualified and present a danger to the traveling public. The prescription for disaster is present, hopefully, it will not come to fruition, but inattention to the problems created by poor vetting, poor training and poor supervision ensure that it will.
243129Perhaps someday someone somewhere will pay heed to my diatribe.
The problem I have with this is that I close my eyes and immediately see that scene from 'Roger and me' where the incompetent GM weasels snicker to each other and leave poor fat Michael standing in the dark with a dead microphone. Preaching to the converted is valuable, but if you need to bring the unrepentant (and, perhaps, those who in their own minds already know Better Big-Picture Answers) to see the errors of their ways and the relative truth of yours, more litanic repetition of what didn't work is unlikely to win the needed 'hearts and minds'.
.
charlie hebdo 243129 Electroliner 1935 243129 It' stops at poor vetting, poor training, poor supervision. But you repeat yourself. And I will continue to do so because they are major factors in Amtrak's spate of human error tragedies. Not to be lost in the repetitive tone of Joe's mantra is the truth. The trouble with slogans is that when overused, they lose their impact.
243129 Electroliner 1935 243129 It' stops at poor vetting, poor training, poor supervision. But you repeat yourself. And I will continue to do so because they are major factors in Amtrak's spate of human error tragedies.
Electroliner 1935 243129 It' stops at poor vetting, poor training, poor supervision. But you repeat yourself.
243129 It' stops at poor vetting, poor training, poor supervision.
But you repeat yourself.
And I will continue to do so because they are major factors in Amtrak's spate of human error tragedies.
Not to be lost in the repetitive tone of Joe's mantra is the truth. The trouble with slogans is that when overused, they lose their impact.
Perhaps so charlie but I see it as networking (?). This is not the only site on which I chant my mantra. However, I have been actively 'chanting' since 2007 to no avail but I do give myself points for tenacity. Perhaps someday someone somewhere will pay heed to my diatribe.
zugmann 243129 And I will continue to do so because they are major factors in Amtrak's spate of human error tragedies. That's fine. It's like the forum's version of "Make America Great Again!"
243129 And I will continue to do so because they are major factors in Amtrak's spate of human error tragedies.
That's fine. It's like the forum's version of "Make America Great Again!"
Do you dispute those reasons/observations?
243129And I will continue to do so because they are major factors in Amtrak's spate of human error tragedies.
I, for one, won't object.
zugmann BaltACD What the Officers overlooked was that a absolute block needed to be maintained behind a train operating on DTC authority. A Restricted Speed trains could be authorized behind each other as a following train was 'required' to be able to stop within 1/2 the range of vision. Not being familiar with Chessie rules - Can't O/S and roll up blocks behind them?
BaltACD What the Officers overlooked was that a absolute block needed to be maintained behind a train operating on DTC authority. A Restricted Speed trains could be authorized behind each other as a following train was 'required' to be able to stop within 1/2 the range of vision.
Not being familiar with Chessie rules - Can't O/S and roll up blocks behind them?
Yes block can be released behind trains that knew when the rear of the train has cleared the block limits; however, with only Flashing Red Lights for EOT's at the time the head end had no 'knowledge' that the rear of the train had actually cleared a block. Giving and releasing multiple trains on a block by block basis creates a high level of work for all concerned - work that is subject to the delays caused by misunderstanding the Mandatory Directives that are being issued.
243129It' stops at poor vetting, poor training, poor supervision.
BaltACDWhat the Officers overlooked was that a absolute block needed to be maintained behind a train operating on DTC authority. A Restricted Speed trains could be authorized behind each other as a following train was 'required' to be able to stop within 1/2 the range of vision.
zugmannYou guys were all high tech. We usually got: "signal system is suspended- let me know when you're ready to copy"
At one time we had a regime of Officers that thought when you had serious signal trouble that would require 8 or more hours to resolve that the signals should be taken out of service and a alternate mean of operation rolled out 'on the fly'. At the time CSX was a Direct Traffic Control on dark territories that worked off of defined block limits. The Officers belief was that trains could operate at 49 MPH under DTC rules, as opposed to Restricted Speed when being 'talked' past a Absolute Stop Signal. What the Officers overlooked was that a absolute block needed to be maintained behind a train operating on DTC authority. A Restricted Speed trains could be authorized behind each other as a following train was 'required' to be able to stop within 1/2 the range of vision.
Not to mention the time it took to transimit Signal Suspension Train Messages to all trains that were already on the segments of track where signals were being taken out of service. All in all - a General Fiasco.
I don't know whether the signal suspension heighted the risk to the extent that it caught the crew off guard or not. It sort of seems like it did because in the middle the few-day episode, they had the horrendous crash that most certainly would have been prevented had the signals not been suspended. So it certainly looks like there was a connection to the heightened risk of the lack of signal protection. As I recall, the NTSB felt the risk was too high and so they got a change made that would require restricted speed when approaching mainline switches under a signal suspension. So they differed with the view that signal suspension was safe enough as long as everone knew the rules.
You guys were all high tech. We usually got: "signal system is suspended- let me know when you're ready to copy"
+1 and thank you for a voice of reason and facts amidst the speculators.
daveklepperIt is not rocket science to replace one signal system with another in an hour or two, not one week! Sure it may mean miles of duplicate cables (temporarily), but the safety is worth it.
The normal CSX Signal Suspension IS NOT a week long affair.
Normally, the suspension starts at 8 AM on a Friday morning. The Signal Department goes through the necessary 'game time' constructions (which are minimal) and destruction (removing the equipment, signal heads and masts of what is being replaced). The previously installed new signals have their heads turned to a operating position. The newly installed signal cabinets get hooked into the existing signal system of territories adjoining the location(s) involved in the suspension and then the testing commences. When the testing is done, trains cannot be in the affected territories so that the signal department can control the inputs and see that the system's response to those inputs are correct.
A signal suspension for a single control point will affect three control points. If B is the control point where the signals are being changed, the area of the signal suspension will be from A to C, which of necessity includes B. The signals at A toward B, by train message only indicate switch position at A and DO NOT covey movement authority. The same thing applies to signals at C working toward B. Authority for any movements between A and C are speific Track Warrants.
Bulletins announcing the Signal Suspension and how it will operate are issued on the affected territory three or four days prior to the effective date of the suspension. When I was working (I don't know of the PSR procedures after I retired) the Suspension bulletin would list a 'Job Briefing' telephone number to be used by ALL CREWS operating at or through the area affected by the suspension. The phone was manned by a Company Official and/or Employee mentor to explain and discuss the specific requirements necessary to operate through the territory in confomance with the rules put into effect in the suspension area.
Under normal circumsance, things would be changed out and tested satisfactorily by Sunday afternoon at the latest, sometime even by dark on Saturday afternoon. Signal Suspensions would rarely be in effect beyond 60 hours. Once everything is tested and operating properly, the bulletins authorizing the suspension are annulled and the territory returns to operation under the appropriate signal rules. When I was working Signal Suspension, at least from the Dispatcher's perspective were exceedingly serious undertakings.
With every form of human endeavor there comes a point in time when you have to trust in the procedures, training and integrity of the employees to perform the actions they are required to perform.
zugmann When all you have is a hammer - every problem looks like a nail.
When all you have is a hammer - every problem looks like a nail.
Johnny
charlie hebdo And now... "Gentlemen: round and round she goes, where it stops, nobody knows."
And now... "Gentlemen: round and round she goes, where it stops, nobody knows."
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