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Pa. Court Reinstates Charges Against Amtrak Engineer

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Posted by 243129 on Thursday, July 30, 2020 10:00 AM

charlie hebdo
single malt

Neat, you would not want to taint it with an ice cube.

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Thursday, July 30, 2020 9:38 AM

Not that I was included in the boating adventure on the Sound, but I'd prefer a single malt with mineral water on the side!!

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, July 30, 2020 9:01 AM

243129
No cherry in the manhattan, it takes up too much room.

My kind of mixologist!

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Posted by 243129 on Thursday, July 30, 2020 8:32 AM

Overmod

 

 
243129
Manhattans at the dock after boating.

 

I'm up for it!  And you can tell war stories of railroading while the rest of us sip... there aren't many better ways to do an evening.

 

 

No cherry in the manhattan, it takes up too much room.Stick out tongue

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Posted by 243129 on Thursday, July 30, 2020 8:30 AM

BaltACD

 

 
243129
 
BaltACD 
243129
Once again I am faced with a 'decision'. It is projected to be the high nineties today. Do I respond to and discuss with Overmod and zugmann or do I 'escape' to a relaxing activity?   Decisions, decisions.Hmm 

See ya later fellasStick out tongue

 Don't drink while boating! 

Manhattans at the dock after boating.Yes

 

Individual in the picture appears to be holding 'a cold one' - while boating.  Of course he is not shown at the controls of the vessel so maybe the actual operator has not been imbibing, however, boating accident statistics inidicate alcohol is a factor in many of the accidents.

 

What is the point of your convoluted observation? Are you PUI?

The "individual" is holding a bottle of water.

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, July 30, 2020 8:23 AM

BaltACD
Individual in the picture appears to be holding 'a cold one' - while boating.

Not wearing a life jacket, either.

But is that a cola?  Seems dark for a brewski...

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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, July 30, 2020 7:56 AM

243129
 
BaltACD 
243129
Once again I am faced with a 'decision'. It is projected to be the high nineties today. Do I respond to and discuss with Overmod and zugmann or do I 'escape' to a relaxing activity?   Decisions, decisions.Hmm 

See ya later fellasStick out tongue

 Don't drink while boating! 

Manhattans at the dock after boating.Yes

Individual in the picture appears to be holding 'a cold one' - while boating.  Of course he is not shown at the controls of the vessel so maybe the actual operator has not been imbibing, however, boating accident statistics inidicate alcohol is a factor in many of the accidents.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, July 30, 2020 3:59 AM

243129
Manhattans at the dock after boating.

I'm up for it!  And you can tell war stories of railroading while the rest of us sip... there aren't many better ways to do an evening.

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Posted by 243129 on Wednesday, July 29, 2020 11:16 PM

BaltACD

 

 
243129
Once again I am faced with a 'decision'. It is projected to be the high nineties today. Do I respond to and discuss with Overmod and zugmann or do I 'escape' to a relaxing activity?   Decisions, decisions.Hmm 

See ya later fellasStick out tongue

 

 

Don't drink while boating!

 

Manhattans at the dock after boating.Yes

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Posted by 243129 on Wednesday, July 29, 2020 10:54 PM

zugmann
Fine, I'll go with my original idea - "I think you should spend this wonderful summer day playing with your dinghy!"

I don't see a 'snark disclaimer'.

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Wednesday, July 29, 2020 8:29 PM

Overmod

 

 
zugmann
Doesn't that sound like a consultant position? Contracted for a specific task, instead of a more general manager?

 

It's much more like a long-term skilled contract employee in a known field of expertise.  "Consultants" serve only at whim, have the danger of being indulged as little tin gods or quietly boycotted by the rank and file that despise them as besserwisser upstart types, and have many of the same problems associated with 'college boy' types in the great age of Taylorism scientific management and the like.

 

This is more like what happens in a proper company reorganization, where it might be desirable to bring in 'new blood' with a different way of doing things, but it becomes SOP from the inside rather than being imposed by Stanford arrogance or the functional equivalent.

 

Many folks work for years as individual contracters.  And many work on "soft money" and learn to love it. 

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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, July 29, 2020 8:02 PM

243129
Once again I am faced with a 'decision'. It is projected to be the high nineties today. Do I respond to and discuss with Overmod and zugmann or do I 'escape' to a relaxing activity?   Decisions, decisions.Hmm 

See ya later fellasStick out tongue

Don't drink while boating!

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, July 29, 2020 12:05 PM

243129
Once again I am faced with a 'decision'...  Decisions, decisions...

No decision at all!  Take the boat!

(I am tempted to say somebody should put that whitewater-rafting cat behind the boat animgif, but is there still a link to it?)

There will always be time to find better solutions for Amdreck when it isn't sailing weather.

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Posted by zugmann on Wednesday, July 29, 2020 11:46 AM

243129
I was trying to be humorous but I guess I wasted my time.

Fine, I'll go with my original idea - "I think you should spend this wonderful summer day playing with your dinghy!"

 

 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by 243129 on Wednesday, July 29, 2020 11:31 AM

zugmann

Ok, I don't think me or overmod really care what you do, but whatever.

 

I was trying to be humorous but I guess I wasted my time.

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Posted by zugmann on Wednesday, July 29, 2020 10:17 AM

Ok, I don't think me or overmod really care what you do, but whatever.

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by 243129 on Wednesday, July 29, 2020 8:59 AM

Once again I am faced with a 'decision'. It is projected to be the high nineties today. Do I respond to and discuss with Overmod and zugmann or do I 'escape' to a relaxing activity?   Decisions, decisions.Hmm

 

 

See ya later fellasStick out tongue

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, July 28, 2020 9:56 PM

zugmann
Doesn't that sound like a consultant position? Contracted for a specific task, instead of a more general manager?

It's much more like a long-term skilled contract employee in a known field of expertise.  "Consultants" serve only at whim, have the danger of being indulged as little tin gods or quietly boycotted by the rank and file that despise them as besserwisser upstart types, and have many of the same problems associated with 'college boy' types in the great age of Taylorism scientific management and the like.

This is more like what happens in a proper company reorganization, where it might be desirable to bring in 'new blood' with a different way of doing things, but it becomes SOP from the inside rather than being imposed by Stanford arrogance or the functional equivalent.

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Posted by zugmann on Tuesday, July 28, 2020 9:47 PM

Overmod
Joe's great value wouldn't be as a manager, but as 'cadre' -- setting up train-the-trainer right, so that actual management people making the employment vetting and training decisions, and overseeing day-to-day ongoing training (it never ends, just like learning to fly) and supervision, are set up running.

Doesn't that sound like a consultant position? Contracted for a specific task, instead of a more general manager?

 And to go in a slightly different path - have any railroads ever made use of I/O psychologists?

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, July 28, 2020 9:38 PM

zugmann
 More suited as consultant material for a specific purpose, rather than managerial material?  That works.

Hey, now wait, you're causing collateral damage now.  Not all consultants are people who can't do and can't teach.

Joe's great value wouldn't be as a manager, but as 'cadre' -- setting up train-the-trainer right, so that actual management people making the employment vetting and training decisions, and overseeing day-to-day ongoing training (it never ends, just like learning to fly) and supervision, are set up running.

There is a peripheral point here.  We all recognize there is more to 'leadership' than there is to 'management'.  But likewise there is more to 'management' than to 'administration'.  And best management is that which functions effectively, not what advances the perceived goal or stated priorities or exoedient profit of 'the organization'... leave the issue of 'firing of convenience' or the usual excuse of 'insubordination' out of the discussion for a moment.  The worst of all possible worlds for any functioning human (as opposed to bullies and similar weaseled) is to be in a position of responsibility without authority, which seems to be increasingly institutionalized in the lower tiers of historic railroad "management" track.  There is probably some sink-or-swim character-winnowing value in this, just as there's supposed to be for hazing at West Point or Marine BT, but it sure is a crappy way to approximate what better methods could accomplish.  The example cited of the 'manager' who learned what was important and gained respect practicing that is something vitally important in figuring out how to develop a sense of cadre culture.

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Posted by 243129 on Tuesday, July 28, 2020 9:29 PM

zugmann

 

 
243129
I'm not looking to manage the "whole" railroad. If each division had a competent manager then the "whole' railroad would benefit.

 

Curious - Have you ever been outside the T&E craft at all in your career? 

PS>. Pony picture makes this thread 20% cooler. 

 

No i have not.

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Posted by zugmann on Tuesday, July 28, 2020 9:13 PM

243129
I'm not looking to manage the "whole" railroad. If each division had a competent manager then the "whole' railroad would benefit.

Curious - Have you ever been outside the T&E craft at all in your career? 

PS>. Pony picture makes this thread 20% cooler. 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by 243129 on Tuesday, July 28, 2020 9:07 PM

zugmann
If you're not willing to go outside your home division - what good are you to the railroad as a whole?

I'm not looking to manage the "whole" railroad. If each division had a competent manager then the "whole' railroad would benefit.

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Posted by zugmann on Tuesday, July 28, 2020 8:58 PM

243129
Your reputation preceded you.

Now I feel loved. 

 

Your second point?   As has been said before to me - the needs of the railroad come first.  If you're not willing to go outside your home division - what good are you to the railroad as a whole?  Also makes you seem, what's a good non-snark phrase? inflexible?  Unadaptable?  More suited as consultant material for a specific purpose, rather than managerial material?  That works.  

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by 243129 on Tuesday, July 28, 2020 8:56 PM

zugmann
There was no snark. I'm long past that. If you think there's snark, then so be it - I really don't care. The thing about amtrak freights was a joke, hence the smiley face.

Your reputation preceded you.

zugmann
But would you be manager material?

In railroad operations on my home division, yes.

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Posted by zugmann on Tuesday, July 28, 2020 8:39 PM

There was no snark.  I'm long past that.  If you think there's snark, then so be it - I really don't care.  The thing about amtrak freights was a joke, hence the smiley face. 

 

I've known a couple managers that did not come from the craft that were very competent and were held in very high regard by those in the craft.  They learned the craft, learned and understood the rules, and were good managers that treated us with respect and dignity, all while keeping the terminals fluid. We didn't want to get in trouble because we didn't want those managers to have to write us up.  I've also known guys that came from the craft that I would have sworn sold their soul to the devil, but I don't think they had one to begin with. They could run a train, but couldn't run a terminal. 

I have no doubt you were a competent & safe engineer.  But would you be manager material?  

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by 243129 on Tuesday, July 28, 2020 8:33 PM

zugmann
You seem to be very outspoken and think of yourself very highly.

Yes I am outspoken. Dale Carnegie I am not. What you refer to as thinking highly of myself is actually pride and confidence in my former occupation.

zugmann
You seem to have a less than ideal view on management.

How can you professionally respect a manager who has no background and minimal knowledge of railroad operations? D.J. Stadtler comes to mind, Amtrak appointed him VP-Operations and he possessed ZERO railroad experience.

zugmann
The question is - what do you estimate your reputation to be?

A competent, safe locomotive engineer.

zugmann
Didn't know amtrak had many of those.

Amtrak has none. The first 20 years of my 51 year career(1963-2014) in engine service beginning with the New Haven involved being qualified in ALL classes of service and all motive equipment on it's roster which dated from the 1940's to the present.

 

Snark noted.

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Posted by zugmann on Tuesday, July 28, 2020 8:31 PM

If you take guys from teh craft, you're probably going to have to teach them supervisory skills.  

 

Having someone with operating experience, supervisory experience, and that wants the management job?  Probably a very small list (if it exists). 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by 243129 on Tuesday, July 28, 2020 7:56 PM

n012944
The part of my quote that you edited out, about the learning curve being higher for someone off the street touched on that.

I am still mystified as to how you can advocate supervision learning as they 'go'. If you yourself don't know the job how can you supervise others?

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Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, July 28, 2020 4:39 PM

zugmann
 
n012944
Nobody said it was easy, it is just not rocket science.  The part of my quote that you edited out, about the learning curve being higher for someone off the street touched on that.   

What's easier?  To teach a RRer to be a manager or to teach a manager to be a RRer?

Honestly, if one is willing to learn, it is easier to teach a 'professional' manager to railroad than it is to teach a railroader to be a professional manager.  As n012944 says railroading is not rocket science.  Dealing with employees and getting them to 'do what you want' without carrying the biggest stick and being the biggest A hole is a skill many railroaders find impossible to master.

On CSX it was practically guaranteed if you accepted promotion from the crafts, you WOULD NOT be assigned to the territory where you had worked in the crafts.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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