As a retired professional railroader, I am disappointed that Mr. Bostian's actions would again be called in question. He made a mistake and became unaware of his location. This reminds me of Fatty Arbuckle being tried for the alleged again, until he was found not guilty. His career was ruined.
Ed Burns
Flintlock76 When I saw this thread pop up the first thing I thought was "Holy Mary, Mother of God! Not again!" Look, would it make some people happy if they just took the old Prussian approach and left Mr. Bostian alone in a room with a Luger loaded with one bullet and asking him to do the "right thing?" I'm starting to wonder.
When I saw this thread pop up the first thing I thought was "Holy Mary, Mother of God! Not again!"
Look, would it make some people happy if they just took the old Prussian approach and left Mr. Bostian alone in a room with a Luger loaded with one bullet and asking him to do the "right thing?"
I'm starting to wonder.
You'll no doubt recall that the Nazis also used this tactic, with Rommel.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
Overmod daveklepper Unattentiveness is not the whole story in this case. Not by a long shot. But neither is supposed concern over rock-throwing being an acceptable excuse in this particular case for inattention to location or resumption of high speed. Nor is supposed trauma-induced amnesia, when the record indicates highly-conscious (and sensible) use of the horn during the accident. There was much about this that was whitewashed and covered up in ways doubtlessly infuriating to accident victims, or their grandstanding putative 'advocates', who want closure on how they were injured or their loved ones killed. Unfortunately the only way this can now be addressed is through a criminal trial, the actual outcome of which highly mirrors the Ukraine impeachment show in many relevant respects. What possible purpose (aside from revenge) can be served by throwing that young man in jail for what he did is difficult for me to see; that 'public officials' are pursuing this happily immune (except distantly at the polls, and only in some cases) from consequences of prosecution themselves is a strong proof that effective tort reform is not the only area of legal-abuse correction we as a society should prioritize. But it does need to be said that a clear trial is one of the only ways we might get to the bottom of what was actually involved.
daveklepper Unattentiveness is not the whole story in this case.
Not by a long shot.
But neither is supposed concern over rock-throwing being an acceptable excuse in this particular case for inattention to location or resumption of high speed.
Nor is supposed trauma-induced amnesia, when the record indicates highly-conscious (and sensible) use of the horn during the accident.
There was much about this that was whitewashed and covered up in ways doubtlessly infuriating to accident victims, or their grandstanding putative 'advocates', who want closure on how they were injured or their loved ones killed. Unfortunately the only way this can now be addressed is through a criminal trial, the actual outcome of which highly mirrors the Ukraine impeachment show in many relevant respects. What possible purpose (aside from revenge) can be served by throwing that young man in jail for what he did is difficult for me to see; that 'public officials' are pursuing this happily immune (except distantly at the polls, and only in some cases) from consequences of prosecution themselves is a strong proof that effective tort reform is not the only area of legal-abuse correction we as a society should prioritize. But it does need to be said that a clear trial is one of the only ways we might get to the bottom of what was actually involved.
You don't know why this accident happened and neither do any of the rest of us. As I have said, as far as I know and recall from the NTSB reports, some aspects of this guy's pre-accident cognitive status were not investigated thoroughly.
Comparing this possible trial with the impeachment process is irrelevant.
There can never be a fair and impartial trial offered.
Jsut look at what all the "experts" on this site have to say every time this subject comes rolling around.
The deck's been stacked for years.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
daveklepperUnattentiveness is not the whole story in this case.
The company had installed automatic speed protection in the opposite direction, but not in the direction of #188. Obviously they knew of the danger of not slowing down for the curve. Their theory of the need for the automatic control in one direction was that that was the direction from which a train would be normally approaching at full speed. The reason for the automatic speed control was in case the engineer forgot where he was. But it would not be needed for the direction of #188 because trains already had a lower speed limit from that direction. Apparently they forgot about the fact that the engineer traveling in the direction of #188 might forget where he was in entering the speed restriction ahead of the curve speed restriction.
daveklepper Have you ever driven a car with rocks being thrown at you? Or thrown at the car ahead of you or one coming the opposite way? Or even just been a passenger in such a cars siituation or bus? Unattentiveness is not the whole story in this case.
Have you ever driven a car with rocks being thrown at you?
Or thrown at the car ahead of you or one coming the opposite way?
Or even just been a passenger in such a cars siituation or bus?
Unattentiveness is not the whole story in this case.
The South Bronx from Van Nest to E.149th, and containing two interlockings, was considered a 'war zone' during the '60s and '70s. Stonings, obstructions being placed on the tracks, trespassers boarding slow-moving freight trains, etc. were commonplace yet incidents of losing situational awareness were rare if not nonexistent. Why? Because you had properly trained and vetted personnel unlike the Amtrak of today.
alphasAn Amtrak engineer has basically the same responsibility as an aircraft pilot or a Greyhound driver. He/she must always be alert. If he loses concentration and many people die and are injured because of his/her inattention that is gross negligence on the engineer's part.
I agree but the company also must bear some culpability for their training, vetting and supervisory procedures. Amtrak has a history of the unknowing teaching the unknowing. The Dupont WA disaster is indicative of that.
No, I've never fallen asleep while driving. If I'm that tired I don't drive. I've never caused an accident other than backing into a car bumper a month after getting my license. But none of that is the point.
An Amtrak engineer has basically the same responsibility as an aircraft pilot or a Greyhound driver. He/she must always be alert. If he loses concentration and many people die and are injured because of his/her inattention that is gross negligence on the engineer's part. This one caused extreme and lasting grief to many people with his inattention. Unlike in Washington State, he was not brand new on his run so he does not have that as an excuse.
alphas Having said that, I do agree with this prosecution since I believe the engineer's gross negligence was so extreme it was criminal.
Having said that, I do agree with this prosecution since I believe the engineer's gross negligence was so extreme it was criminal.
Have you ever driven while tired, or briefly fallen asleep behind the wheel? If yes, then you are probably guilty of the same offence as Brandon Bostian.
I imagine you have been lucky enough to have never caused an accident.
alphasHaving said that, I do agree with this prosecution since I believe the engineer's gross negligence was so extreme it was criminal.
Explain.
I'm not sure if the examination of Bostian was sufficient to uncover possible cognitive dysfunction, as I speculated in the past. A criminal prosecution is as off-base as the ridiculous charges of voter fraud raised gratuitously here.
So do you think he did it on purpose?
For someone to commit such an egregious error do you not think the tendency to commit such errors should have been apparent and noticed?
The current PA AG is up for re-election this year. He has gotten a lot of publicity for going after the Catholic church regarding the priest sex charges and also being one of the 10 or so dem State DA's that always challenges the Trump administration on everything. He definitely wants to be governor (PA's current Lt. Gov. is his main competition but is very flaky), then probably US Senator. This one will also help his visability come November since his political ambition would be dead if he loses his re-election bid.
I don't care for him since he had and still has Soros strong financial backing. He is definitely very left-wing, welcomes all illegals to PA, and basically wants voting made so easy that there would be no real supervision to prevent any voter fraud (which has been a major ongoing problem with Philly, his home base, for decades) along with many other issues.
samfp1943My guess is that both Zugmann and Electroliner1935 are pretty much spot- on...It seems that everything these days has a grounding in politics.... I can't speak to the current politics wallowing around in Penna. now but it seems that former Engineer B/ Bostian is now the local political football.... Lawyers will play with him like cats with spools of thread. It seems that Mr. Bostian is headed to a similar legal fate that Engineer R, Gates found himself in; after the 1987 Gunpowder Falls wreck; for which he paid dearly.
I can't speak to the current politics wallowing around in Penna. now but it seems that former Engineer B/ Bostian is now the local political football....
Lawyers will play with him like cats with spools of thread. It seems that Mr. Bostian is headed to a similar legal fate that Engineer R, Gates found himself in; after the 1987 Gunpowder Falls wreck; for which he paid dearly.
Time for Bostain to attack and run for political office. Sitting ducks are easier targets than flying ducks.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
zugmann State AG in PA is a stepping stone to the governor's mansion. This is a political move. Also, many counties are now defying the state's orders for business closures, so it may be a distraction as well. It's funny they are worried about those deaths, but don't seem to care about the 4000+ COVID-19 deaths in the state so far.
State AG in PA is a stepping stone to the governor's mansion. This is a political move. Also, many counties are now defying the state's orders for business closures, so it may be a distraction as well.
It's funny they are worried about those deaths, but don't seem to care about the 4000+ COVID-19 deaths in the state so far.
My guess is that both Zugmann and Electroliner1935 are pretty much spot- on...It seems that everything these days has a grounding in politics....
“Given his extensive training and experience and despite having 250 passengers aboard, (Bostian) consciously disregarded a substantial and unjustifiable risk of derailment,” Stabile wrote. “He was going twice over the speed limit… Moreover, the evidence indicates that, based on his training and experience, (Bostian) was aware of the risk inherent in navigating the Frankford Curve.”
Stabile found that prosecutors presented sufficient evidence to merit taking the case against Bostian to a jury which “could conclude that (Bostian) acted recklessly in causing the derailment of Train 188.”
Bostian was also a 'victim'. A victim of Amtrak's inadequate training, vetting and supervisory protocols.
The lawyers need billing hours.
samfp1943 seppburgh2 The story of train 188 was just re-opened. https://www.pennlive.com/news/2020/05/pa-court-reinstates-manslaughter-charges-against-amtrak-engineer-over-train-crash-that-killed-8-hurt-200.html?ath=0bb1b6cd3f17940938962faa84b7e922&utm_source=Newsletter&utm_medium=Newsletter%20-%20Breaking%20News&utm_campaign=Newsletter%20-%20Breaking%20News#cmpid=nsltr_strybutton This accident happened in 2015, and there have been at least 2 or 3 Court cases heard. Amtrak accepted blame and paid out $265 million to the victims and families. Criminal charges have been dropped; What is to be gained by re-litigating this again (and again?) .
seppburgh2 The story of train 188 was just re-opened. https://www.pennlive.com/news/2020/05/pa-court-reinstates-manslaughter-charges-against-amtrak-engineer-over-train-crash-that-killed-8-hurt-200.html?ath=0bb1b6cd3f17940938962faa84b7e922&utm_source=Newsletter&utm_medium=Newsletter%20-%20Breaking%20News&utm_campaign=Newsletter%20-%20Breaking%20News#cmpid=nsltr_strybutton
The story of train 188 was just re-opened.
https://www.pennlive.com/news/2020/05/pa-court-reinstates-manslaughter-charges-against-amtrak-engineer-over-train-crash-that-killed-8-hurt-200.html?ath=0bb1b6cd3f17940938962faa84b7e922&utm_source=Newsletter&utm_medium=Newsletter%20-%20Breaking%20News&utm_campaign=Newsletter%20-%20Breaking%20News#cmpid=nsltr_strybutton
This accident happened in 2015, and there have been at least 2 or 3 Court cases heard. Amtrak accepted blame and paid out $265 million to the victims and families. Criminal charges have been dropped; What is to be gained by re-litigating this again (and again?) .
With covid-19 somebody has too much time on their hands.
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